To get kids into science, just do it • Hacker News Board

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#91

Post by anpat » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

toddm wrote: post #88

selimthegrim wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do now?

I'm trying to get back into my chosen field, specifically in computational chemistry and drug design. It's rough sledding as they say, since I am an older candidate who is hardly up to speed on where things are now vs. circa 2005. For the past 18 years - since I left academia - I've been bouncing around as a "data scientist," working in many fields but not what I really want to do and/or am actually good at doing.

Not exactly same fields but folks over at https://citrine.io might interest you given your interest + background.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#92

Post by granshaw » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 5:45 PM UTC

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #63

To get kids into science, make the education system better. Less memorisation, more practical work. Accelerate things for those interested and remove those that aren't. I wanted to be a chemical engineer or pharmacologist but got so bored that I moved on to something else. Now I fiddle with code and do nothing of real value to society. At least I get paid well I supppose.

I'm sorry, but this is somewhat playing the victim.

If you really felt strongly about being a a chemical engineer or pharmacologist and benefitting society through that, the schoolwork being uninteresting doesn't sound like a big hurdle to overcome.

We can't expect "the system" to solve everything.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#93

Post by potatototoo99 » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 5:47 PM UTC

We shouldn't push kids into science if that's not their interest in the first place - just saying it since apparently some people need to hear it.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#94

Post by granshaw » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 5:50 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #19

> As many other studies have shown, when children hear descriptions of categories, whether “apples are red” or “scientists are smart,” they infer that members of those categories have special, exclusive characteristics. My friend in college had a mannerism that when he was about to give up on understanding something he was saying "it's for smart people to figure out". It always elicited visceral reaction from me "No,…

This is so common in the current anti-intellectual American mindset... other forms it takes:

  - I wouldn't know, X person is way smarter than me
  - (Try to discuss how something might work...) This was made by really smart people, I'll leave it to them!
  - (learns you're doing an Engineering degree) Wow, you must be really smart!
  - The "for science!!" trope

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#95

Post by analog31 » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

Not all people have the motivation and self discipline to force themselves through a career in something that they hate, solely for the money.

I learned programming as a kid in 1981 and fell in love with it. I knew about the demand for programmers, as my mom was teaching programming at a nearby tech school.

My college internship was at a large computing facility, which employed a number of programmers. I formed the impression that programming as a job was incredibly repetitive, stressful, and boring. I majored in math and physics, and ended up with a PhD in physics.

I do plenty of programming today, but on my own terms. I work at a place that has a large programming department, and my opinion of programming as a job has not changed. On the other hand, if someone loves that kind of work, or can at least grind their way through it, they're welcome to the money.

It may have taken me a bit longer to reach a decent salary level. Today, I'm the highest ranking "technical track" worker in one division of a F500. Had I gone into programming, I might have reached a plateau, or burnt out.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#96

Post by onos » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 6:25 PM UTC

granshaw wrote: post #94

scotty79 wrote: post #19

> As many other studies have shown, when children hear descriptions of categories, whether “apples are red” or “scientists are smart,” they infer that members of those categories have special, exclusive characteristics. My friend in college had a mannerism that when he was about to give up on understanding something he was saying "it's for smart people to figure out". It always elicited visceral reaction from me "No,…

This is so common in the current anti-intellectual American mindset... other forms it takes: - I wouldn't know, X person is way smarter than me - (Try to discuss how something might work...) This was made by really smart people, I'll leave it to them! - (learns you're doing an Engineering degree) Wow, you must be really smart! - The "for science!!" trope

That sounds more like “avoidance of personal engagement in intellectual pursuit” rather than anti-intellectual - if anything these suggest complete deference to supposed experts.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#97

Post by annyeonghada » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 6:26 PM UTC

4ad wrote: post #27

pdpi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PhD in maths is _incredibly_ valuable. Anything abstract algebra related, and the likes of the NSA are all over you. Anything numerical analysis related will find plenty of opportunities in finance, and the industry just calls statistics specialists "Data Scientists".

> NSA > finance You're not selling it.

Yeah, I remember my Physics degree: "With a Physics degree you will have lots of employment opportunities... but not in Physics!"

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#98

Post by onos » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 6:26 PM UTC

My hot take: early science classes are almost completely useless, infotainment-type courses. Much better to engage the interested young with math. Then they can get into real science courses when in highschool.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#99

Post by JamesianP » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 6:27 PM UTC

toddm wrote: post #88

selimthegrim wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do now?

I'm trying to get back into my chosen field, specifically in computational chemistry and drug design. It's rough sledding as they say, since I am an older candidate who is hardly up to speed on where things are now vs. circa 2005. For the past 18 years - since I left academia - I've been bouncing around as a "data scientist," working in many fields but not what I really want to do and/or am actually good at doing.

In my experience it's almost always the case with industry that you end up in some adjacent niche that isn't quite exactly what you want to do, even if you never leave the field of your schooling. By that I mean it may be a lot easier to get into computational chemistry for something other than drug design.

It's a weird time now with software eating everything and many science jobs asking for PhD in or Computer Science (!) as requirements. So I'd assume there's some angle in which your experience provides an advantage.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#100

Post by pjbeam » Sun, Nov 06, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

onos wrote: post #98

My hot take: early science classes are almost completely useless, infotainment-type courses. Much better to engage the interested young with math. Then they can get into real science courses when in highschool.

A little bit of wow factor from infotainment at an impressionable age can lead to lifetime interest that is far, far more impactful than the "educational" quality or content of these classes.

Not always of course but this kind of thing can definitely be valuable.