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Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

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Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#91

Post by rossdavidh »

Just a thought experiment: what if it turns out that, for all practical purposes, it is impossible to prevent cheating in chess?

I mean the sport of Tour de France cycling disappeared for a decade, replaced by an identical-looking-but-fundamentally-different sport of competing to see who can cheat (dope) the best. It was probably not even possible to get into the TdF during that time period, without doping, there were so many people doing it.

It is entirely possible, that chess (as a professional competition) is not going to survive this, because it will turn out that with modern computing and communications technology, it is not possible to prevent cheating. Whoever wins the competition, will be the one who cheated the best. Chess will be replaced with an acting and subterfuge competition.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#92

Post by NickC25 »

The guy has admitted to cheating in the past, to make money. Basically he said that if his rating was above X, he could make more money streaming.

Chess.com put out a massive publication proving he cheated a hell of a lot more than "once or twice when he was younger".

Because if he's not cheating, he's literally the prodigal child of AlphaZero and Bobby Fischer and should be crowned the GOAT immediately. Some of his play is unreal.

There are more examples of him playing games with 100% accuracy against fellow GMs in the past few years than Magnus has had in his entire career IIRC. Some of his losses are against much lower rated opponents and somehow he manages to play some of the most accurate games against the highest rated opponents.

Honestly, what needs to happen is chess needs to be replaced with Fischer Random, and matches played in significantly faster time controls so players don't have the time to have moves evaluated and transmitted to them.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#93

Post by vecter »

planetsprite wrote: post #48
2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

His rate of improvement, assuming no cheating since his ban in 2020, is a faster ascendance than any other player in history, including Bobby Fischer. So yes, assuming he suddenly quit cheating cold turkey, his performance would indicate he is a once in a generation talent and could easily become the best in the world, according to the Chess.com report.

This is just not true. Check out the analysis here [0], for example. His rating improvement has been steep but he's also played a very large number of games, so his rating gain per game as opposed to per unit of time is not so crazy.

Also, no one seriously expects Hans to be a world championship contender.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/x9bgtx/how_quickly_d...

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#94

Post by neaden »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #74
2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

I‘ve been trying to draw parallels to other sports in this regard. Nobody accused Tiger Woods of cheating (at golf) when he redefined the sport. People DID accuse Lance Armstrong, and they were right (although in that case the whole field was cheating). New England Patriots? Kinda cheated. Michael Phelps has never been accused AFAIK. As a non-chess player, I can’t help but wonder if this is just an entire sport refus…

To be clear online chess legitimately has a cheating problem. I think it has gotten better but according to chess.com there have been a number of Grandmasters including some of the top 100 players in the world who have cheated on the site and admitted it. Cheating in over the board chess seems to be much less common but everyone realizes it is possible and if done well would be challenging to catch. I think this has primed the field for people to be suspicious.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#95

Post by ppjim »

This is not a good thing for chess that Hans Niemann is filing a lawsuit against world champion Magnus Carlsen and others. The lawsuit is a distraction from the game of chess and takes away from the enjoyment that fans of the game get from watching the top players compete.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#96

Post by WORMS_EAT_WORMS »

I feel bad for Magnus. It looks like the CEO of chess.com totally played him.

Chess.com sponsors and owns so much of the Chess community.

They have more power and influence than even FIDE over the players IMO.

- GM sponsors? Chess.com money.

- Chess streamers? Chess.com money.

Magnus joining forces in a more professional setting via the acquisition created a serious conflict of interest.

Not a perfect example, but imagine if Lebron James was on the board of the NBA while playing for the Lakers...

It just becomes too easy for things to spiral.

How I see it, chess.com's "timed banned", "the report" and "the CEO reddit comments" fueled a fire that didn't need it to support their guy.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#98

Post by svrtknst »

Is it normal for these suits to be so... salty? in their formulations. I've never read one before, but a lot of the wordings are pretty hilarious.

> Carlsen, having solidifed his position as the "King of Chess", believes that when it comes to chess, he can do whatever he wants and get away with it.

> On September 4, 2022, Niemann soundly defeated Carlsen during an in-person game > Notably, this was not the first time that Niemann beat Carlsen at chess

> Notorios for his inability to cope with defeat, Carlsen snapped. Enraged that the young Niemann, fully 12 years his junior, dared to disrespect the "King of Chess", and fearful that the young prodigy would further blemish his multi-million dollar brand by beating him again

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#100

Post by threatofrain »

faeriechangling wrote: post #50
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #33

It's going to be interesting to watch someone with a documented history of cheating try to claim they were damaged by being called a cheater.

I think him being damaged by being called a cheater is incredibly obvious, it has materially impacted his future earnings directly, and it has also had a significantly impacted his reputation beyond what the prior cheating allegations did. Magnus and Hikaru are two of the biggest chess celebrities on the planet, and Chess.com (According to Hans himself) has the best anti-cheat team in the chess world. Being accused o…

I'd also note that Chess.com prefers to deal with things privately and would've been quiet about this had Hans not publicly used Chess.com's brand to bolster his own credibility, essentially saying that Chess.com vouches for him. Then Chess.com asked him to retract his words but Hans refused.

This is ultimately led to the WSJ article.

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