Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

dw.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 392 posts

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#91

Post by legulere »

mabbo wrote: post #76
legulere wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all of it was replaced by renewables: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Energiemix_Deutschla...

They could have instead replaced the fossil fuel electrical generation with those renewables, and kept the nuclear plants. That would have been a massive reduction in carbon emissions by Germany. Odd choice.

I would agree, especially from the standpoint of today, but I guess you have to see things historically.

Issues with nuclear like fallout from Chernobyl still leading to contamination today in German or bad handling of nuclear waste at the Asse II mine have been a topic in German society for a very long time. The climate crisis picked up as a topic only really in the late 90s. That explains the first nuclear exit plan in 2000.

The current exit from 2011 was a direct reaction to what happened in Fukushima.

I mean even today you still have plenty of people and company that think that there is still a lot of time before more action must be taken against climate change.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#92

Post by JumpCrisscross »

V__ wrote: post #85
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only about 10% of gas is used for electricity and Germany has enough electricity German household electricity is double the price of America’s and considerably higher than France or Italy [1]. Were this not the case, more houses could be heated with electricity instead of gas and the coming recession made less painful. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/263492/electricity-price...

Absolutely. But the switch to heat pumps will take time and won't change the situation right now. The political procrastination of the last decades is biting Germany in the ass right now.

> the switch to heat pumps will take time and won't change the situation right now

It could make a dent if seriously pursued, e.g. by focussing transitioning vulnerable households. The economic benefits of reduced electricity prices would also immediately accrue.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#93

Post by timmg »

V__ wrote: post #88
arcticbull wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The downside is, that they were already in the process of being shut down. They now need to undergo new safety checks, the fuel rods are nearly spend and this will cost 100 millions. Money which can be spent better. Oh no, here's hoping they learned a lesson from that money. Without affordable gas, they'll be buying electric heaters. I believe that's already under way. [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/energ…

Right now, gas prices are falling (since the gas storages are full) and federal assistance is currently in the works. So, while possible, I don't know how likely of a problem this will be.

Above you pointed out the high cost of replacing fuel rods. How does that compare to the “federal assistance” required to pay bloated gas bills?

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#94

Post by cypress66 »

dependsontheq wrote: post #87

While I agree that it would have been sensible to phase out coal and then nuclear, the german position is more complex. The fallout from Tschernobyl was measurable in Germany… measurable as in my science teacher measured it in his garden. Up to today boar and mushrooms have an elevated level of radiation in the forests around my home. So this is the emotional background, the risks are not far away. Fukushima gave the…

I'm sure your science teacher can also measure air pollution in his garden.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#95

Post by jansan »

Rygian wrote: post #67
legulere wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all of it was replaced by renewables: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Energiemix_Deutschla...

Why is Germany using more natural gas now than in 2010? Did they replace coal by gas? Would it have been possible to replace coal with nuclear instead, and keep gas at 2015 levels?

It is needed in summer to replace solar energy during the night. Gas power plants can be switched on and off almost at will, unlike coal or nuclear plants that have long startup and shutdown times. So the gas power plants are switched on at night in summer when the sun doesn't shine.

Also, the EU commission declared in February 2022 natural gas as a sustainable energy source, and the EU parliament confirmed this in July 2022. Sounds a bit bizarre, but the dates are correct.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#97

Post by YeBanKo »

maliker wrote: post #57
legulere wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all of it was replaced by renewables: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Energiemix_Deutschla...

True. Some even argue that Germany's renewable build-out was so large that it significantly lowered renewable costs worldwide. But if Russian gas was as expensive and unreliable 15 years ago as it is now, I suspect they would have kept the nukes.

If only there was a sign in 2008 that would indicate to Germany that Russia was not a reliable partner. Like if, for example, Russia targeted oil pipeline running from Azerbaijan to Europe through Georgia and Turkey. Oh, but there was: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB121866234961938253

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#98

Post by zakk »

legulere wrote: post #42
maliker wrote: post #18

In case anyone was curious, Germany used to get 25% of its generation from nuclear (now more like 10%), and they had as many as 17 nuclear reactors as of 2010. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany

And all of it was replaced by renewables: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Energiemix_Deutschla...

Part of these renewables are the so-called "biomass", which leads to pretty substantial CO2 emissions.

So basically they replaced a CO2-neutral energy source, with another which is pretty CO2-intensive.

Renewable does not mean good for the environment!

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#99

Post by oynqr »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #89
xg15 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany's main source of heating is gas and yes, gas is used to generate electricity, so nuclear can reduce gas consumption. However, only about 10% of gas is used for electricity and Germany has enough electricity. In a worst-case scenario, those nuclear power plants can help stabilize the grid, but they are not needed in general. A number of cities also use district heating, where the heat is taken directly from…

I wouldn't like nuclear water heating my house.

I bet you don't travel by plane, either.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#100

Post by xg15 »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #89
xg15 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany's main source of heating is gas and yes, gas is used to generate electricity, so nuclear can reduce gas consumption. However, only about 10% of gas is used for electricity and Germany has enough electricity. In a worst-case scenario, those nuclear power plants can help stabilize the grid, but they are not needed in general. A number of cities also use district heating, where the heat is taken directly from…

I wouldn't like nuclear water heating my house.

I mean...

I usually belong to the anti-nuclear crowd, but even I don't think that would be an issue.

From what I know, one of the iron rules of nuclear plant design is that the contaminated stuff never leaves the reactor building. Even the steam circuit that powers the generator is separated from the (contaminated) primary circuit and receives energy through a heat exchanger [1].

The lines for district heating would probably be separated from the primary circuit by several of those.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_exchanger

Post reply on HN