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The single market is looking wobbly

economist.com

91–97 of 97 posts

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but at this point the only thing that prevents her from moving to Czechia to make better money is the fact that her son likes Madrid and she does not want to uproot him. That would be unthinkable some 20-25 years ago. Spain back then was, relatively taken, much richer than any post-Communist country and your living standard would have gone measurably down if you moved from Spain to Czechia.

I dont know why it surprises you that Czechia is more developed than Spain. Romania for instance has overtaken Greece and will overtake Portugal in the near future. Hungary is also doing rather well let alone Poland. Without wars those countries are returning to their natural state. But that still doesnt mean Spain is poor. It just means other countries progressed. And many times its the progress and growth that matt…

It surprises me because it goes against my lived experience. When I grew up in late Communist and early post-Communist Czechoslovakia and later Czechia, it was absolutely taken for granted that we are poorer than Spain and have much lower buying power. As late as 2004, I felt it in my wallet when I stayed in Barcelona for a cryptographic workshop - everything was so much more expensive than back home.

IDK what do you mean by "natural state". There are too many counterexamples. Ireland or Norway used to be comparably poor countries in the early 1900s, Slovakia was seriously underdeveloped etc. What is the "natural state" of Spain in your opinion? An Arab colony, a center of a huge empire, or a military dictatorship? The country has gone through so many iterations during its existence.

"Poor" is a word that has two meanings. No one in their sane mind would call Spain absolutely poor, like Niger or Afghanistan is. But relative poverty is psychologically damaging too. If other countries progress faster than you, you are slowly moving towards the end of the wealth distribution in your common club. And people don't like that.

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> State-aid rules were suspended during covid-19, as national governments bailed out everything from airlines to pizzerias. This is anything but a free market, and the consequences thereof. Actually a very good analogy for NGEU program.

As if industrial capitalists play fair. "Free markets" live in textbooks.

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Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#93
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in turn saw their industry unable to compete with the German one as deutsche marks stopped relatively appreciating with every german export. By the way they didn’t just join for that, so obviously saying “don’t complain! You got what you asked for” doesn’t really make sense as an argument.

After 20 years, everybody should really stop believing the conspiracy theory of the Germans that invent the Euro to rule them all, à la Sauron.

Perhaps read a comment twice before publicly dismissing it as childish, in case you were not able to fully grasp what you read.

The only thing I said regarding intentions is that the “Latin block” intentions portrayed above were overly simplistic.

The mechanism by which german exports sharing a currency with weaker economies makes german currency appreciate less than otherwise is not a conspiracy theory but simple, generally accepted and well understood economics.

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#94
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy used to be quite an industrial powerhouse when I was young. I still remember visiting the country in 2000, and even though the lira was weak, the overall atmosphere was much more lively, optimistic and vibrant. Contemporary Italy feels worn down and without hope. Too many young people with diplomas have simply fled. I get the same vibe in Spain, by the way, and in many cities of the former GDR, which is actuall…

Italy was already significantly behind Germany and far from the technological frontier in the 1980s, it wasn’t the euro that slowed its growth. Then it took 40 years of obscene governments to bring it where it is now.

> it wasn’t the euro that slowed its growth

This only follows from the first phrase if you assume that one and only one thing can slow Italy.

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#95
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy was already significantly behind Germany and far from the technological frontier in the 1980s, it wasn’t the euro that slowed its growth. Then it took 40 years of obscene governments to bring it where it is now.

> it wasn’t the euro that slowed its growth This only follows from the first phrase if you assume that one and only one thing can slow Italy.

[deleted]

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#96
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t live in Germany and, of course, Italy and Spain are poor compared to Sweden or Germany, not in general.

So if all of these countries are not poor in general then why this poverty fetishism? Why the constant “i am richer than you” in europe when all of europe is sinking?

People naturally compare themselves to their neighbors. This isn't anything out of the ordinary, it is just human nature.

Re: The single market is looking wobbly

#97
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy was already significantly behind Germany and far from the technological frontier in the 1980s, it wasn’t the euro that slowed its growth. Then it took 40 years of obscene governments to bring it where it is now.

> it wasn’t the euro that slowed its growth This only follows from the first phrase if you assume that one and only one thing can slow Italy.

TFP growth has stopped in the mid-70s or in the 80s at best, there isn’t much more to say.
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