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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#91

Post by nerdponx »

galangalalgol wrote: post #76
ianai wrote: post #72

Unfortunately this is well within corporate “go away” money. They’ll gladly dish over 75k to get a threat off their books. It’s the corporate equivalent to stuffing 20 bucks in your pocket in case you’re held up while out on a run and don’t carry your wallet. Add a zero to make it 750k if you want corporations to think about it deeper.

most people i know don't keep cash even in their wallet. Do people even want credit cards or IDs? Even phones track themselves and turn off. What do muggers take these days?

Debit cards and cash, for one. They also will just take the entire wallet and figure out what's valuable later.

Also historically there have been ways to unlock stolen phones so they can be resold "cleanly" later. I don't know what current iPhones are like, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible with Android phones.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#92

Post by Hendrikto »

tinyhouse wrote: post #66
GoToRO wrote: post #28

It's always something toxic when it comes to US companies. I had to do multiple background checks. In Romania they are unheard of.

Funny. Most US companies behave much better than companies outside the US. That's why Romanians looking to be hired by US companies and not vice versa (no attempt to offend you or any other Romanian, just stating a fact). This company sounds like a shitty one, the US of course has those like any other country, but it's usually the US ones that get more publicity when things like this happen.(also when good things hap…

> Most US companies behave much better than companies outside the US. That's why Romanians looking to be hired by US companies

No. The reason is compensation.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#93

Post by phaer »

geek_at wrote: post #78
sebazzz wrote: post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

European in general. My wife works for a biotech company in Austria which was recently aquired by an american company and it's so funny to hear about their efforts to adapt to EU law and culture. Most of their training material is still unchanged from their US branch so there are things they list as benefits for all employees like - 3 Weeks paid vacation (we get 5 by law) - Health insurance (you know the drill) - 3 w…

All true, but it might be worth mentioning that most of those benefits are still Austrian law, not European law. So while they generally better than the US, other EU states might lack some of those law.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#94

Post by daenney »

CalRobert wrote: post #40
sebazzz wrote: post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

Or basically any labour laws. "You mean you can't just be on call with a 5 minute SLA for 14 days straight non-stop?

“Hey so the way we do on-call is violating labour laws for all EU employees”. I’ve had very fun conversations with HR and Legal about this.

There’s so many fun things. Mandatory rest periods, on-call on weekends in some countries requiring additional work, having to actually pay people, needing to provide them with the equipment to be on-call (phone and subscription) and on it goes.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#95

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

em-bee wrote: post #88
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot I want to fix in Austria from bureaucracy to taxation of stock options and more. The employment law is very fine by me. If you think that you will get better wages if it’s harder to dismiss employees I have doubts. The main reason devs don’t earn enough in Austria is that it’s hard and expensive to have a business there and that the country is not appealing for employees. That means that the few good I…

if austria is not appealing for employees, wouldn't that mean that salaries should be higher, to make it more appealing?

Not really, because there are other options around. For a gross salary of 100.000 Euro (which is already high, but not necessarily for software engineers) the employer pays 125.000 Euro, after taxes the employee retains 61.000 Euro. Stock options are generally taxed as income as well.

So the general taxation situation and the complexities in doing business (lots of notaries needed, slow processes) make it unappealing.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#96

Post by christophilus »

GoToRO wrote: post #28

It's always something toxic when it comes to US companies. I had to do multiple background checks. In Romania they are unheard of.

I’ve never had a background check for any US job I’ve had, other than a government contractor, so this is not universal. I don’t even think it’s normal. Maybe my sample size of 15 or so is just non-representative, though. I don’t tend to apply to the sorts of firms that specialize in bureaucracy.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#97

Post by Xylakant »

formerly_proven wrote: post #67
belter wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus cue in the shock of US Employees, when they realize his court costs to sue his employer were less than 500 dollars.

This isn't harmonized across the EU though, e.g. in German labor courts each side pays their own fees and lawyers regardless of outcome. So even a completely illegal action by your employer can/will still cost you hundreds to thousands of euros when you go and fight it. (The flip side is you don't have to pay for a team of expensive corpo-lawyers in case you loose)

The rules depend on what court you go to. In the first instance, both sides pay their own lawyers, but the court fees are paid by the loosing party (1). The fees are usually not very high, so that‘s not much of a barrier. On an appeal, the loosing party pays all fees, including the opponents lawyers (1).

Being in a union pays off in labor court: Unions usually offer sending their legal staff instead of a lawyer that you‘d need to personally retain. This substantially reduces the costs of a court case for the employee.

See https://www.klugo.de/ratgeber/arbeitsgericht-kosten

(1) or shared, on partial wins.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#98

Post by yrgulation »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #42
yrgulation wrote: post #8

“worker had been present in the office being observed by management” And yet there are people who prefer working on site and “being observed by management”.

You might be surprised to know that there are workplaces where you don't get "observed by management" which is why people love going there on site. Or that there are jobs where you don't have the choice of WFH so you have to show up to the office whether you like it or not if you want to afford food and rent. Or lack of silence, space, amenities at home, or the multiple other reasons why some people to go to the offi…

You are right in the sense that mechanics, construction workers, medics, cant really work from home.

But to say that in tech, which thrives due to remote customers, people must work on site is misguided. People cant afford the “luxuries” you mentioned because they need to be in the proximity of their office. Some are so traumatised by the experience that they cant fathom the notion that it is possible to own a place of your own, moreover, a place that can provide quietness and space. Such people need reminding that yes it is possible. If a company demand remote customers then employees can demand remote work.

Those that despite having the space and the option of working form home yet chose onsite are welcome to do so. But i will remind folks that that is unnatural for human beings. Farming cattle is bad enough let alone people.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#99

Post by ianai »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #86
s1artibartfast wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Less than a week after the plaintiff was fired, the Rijswijk branch of Chetu Inc. was deregistered from the Chamber of Commerce and shut down on 2 September, records show. The branch was first registered in the Netherlands on 1 June 2013 with the capital declared at 10 million euros.

That doesn’t mean they won’t pay him. Only that they don’t plan to hire in the Netherland anymore. It would be pretty stupid to not pay to be honest. It’s not that much money, would mean keeping an open case in the UE and it’s highly likely they would end up paying anyway though one of the collection mechanisms in place for this kind of case.

Or they’re telling an entire country to “go away” and that’s a big enough indictment against their practices itself. And market power.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#100

Post by tick_tock_tick »

maartenscholl wrote: post #89
Irishsteve wrote: post #84

Can this actually be enforced. It sounds like it’s a Dutch court v US entity where they were a contractor. If the company had a Dutch entity they wouldn’t make such obvious errors in judgement as they’d know the local laws

If you'd read the second sentence of the article, you would have learned that the company has a branch in the Netherlands.

And if you kept reading you'd know they don't anymore and the guy hasn't been paid.
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