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Our ancestors ate a Paleo diet and it had carbs

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Re: Our ancestors ate a Paleo diet and it had carbs

#91
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe it is in fact established? Science discovers new ‘facts’ all the time. To say definitively that humans first evolved here in the context of a 4 billion year old planet seems irresponsible at best.

My understanding is that the known fossil record is extremely clear on this, and is additionally quite consistent to the extent where I'm unaware of any competing hypotheses that are taken seriously. As far as science goes, it seems to be as established as it gets. Again, unless you've got convincing evidence to the contrary. Really not sure what your agenda is here?

Plenty of competing theories on the origins of humanity on a 4 billion year old planet some in which the origins of life came from elsewhere in the universe.

I think this may be the most recent evidence that modern science has discovered.

Perhaps you mean to say we wont dig up any fossils that say otherwise and that the case is closed?

As if the entirety of the fossil record on earth has been exhausted and we have nothing more to discover.

My agenda is to make sure we are being good scientists and not religious about our findings.

Religion is not science. It is a belief.

Re: Our ancestors ate a Paleo diet and it had carbs

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a nutshell it's about genetic diversity. Subsaharan Africans include virtually all of the set of homo sapiens genes (save for mutations that occurred later on elsewhere), while populations outside of Africa have only select subsets of genes, due to the limited diversity in small migratory groups. So if you're European, for example, nearly all the genes you have can also be found in the Subsaharan African populatio…

That's true but I don't see how the earlier claim necessarily follows. It seems to be making assumptions around the amount of gene flow between Europe and Asia in the last 30k years, as well as that it was distinct migratory groups that seeded Europe versus seeded Asia. It could well be true, it's plausible, I tried to google it without much luck, though.

From what I know it based purely on current measurable genetics, it's not making any assumptions at all. It's the genetic evidence that comes first that supports the hypothesis of distinct migratory groups, not the other way around.

Re: Our ancestors ate a Paleo diet and it had carbs

#93

I've read similar missives like this before, and I've always felt that they are at least somewhat of a strawman. The primary feature I always have associated with paleo is no processed carbs. That is, no flour or sugar. But certainly things like fruit and root vegetables are always fine, and encouraged. Yes, some paleo adherents make it very meat heavy, and others combine paleo with low carb generally. But when I see…

Honey throws a huge wrench in the paleo argument: it's essentially a 100% processed/refined sugar of which the Hadza in particular consume huge amounts with no ill effect. Matter of fact seems to be that if you can use the calories, there is nothing wrong with getting them separate from nutrients. A highly active person might need twice as many calories as his sedentary twin but only 20-30% more nutrients to sustain…

Actually the Hadza DID suffer an ill-effect for all that honey they ate. I'll quote below what I wrote in a different thread that talked about this article:

Something that the article fails to mention is that unlike the indigenous people who didn't consume as much honey (like Inuit before they were introduced to refined carbs) the Hadza had high incidence of dental caries among those who commonly ate honey:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5351833/

"The unexpected discovery of high caries incidences for men in the bush is likely explained by heavy reliance on honey, and perhaps differential access to tobacco and marijuana."

The Alaskan Inuits who didn't eat nearly as much carbs, had far fewer incidences of dental caries until the introduction of refined carbohydrates:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2012/12...

"In 1965, the dietary intake was conducted by the ‘interview method’ plus personal observations when visiting all of the families during meal times. Bang and Kristoffersen ‘…contacted all of the Eskimos involved in the study questioning each individual in detail about what food and roughly how much of each food item he consumed in the course of the year’.1 The authors noted a dramatic increase in carbohydrate intake of ‘nearly 50%’ and a decrease in the intake of protein ‘by about 50%’ from 1955 to 1957 to 1965.1 This rise in the intake of carbohydrate was paralleled by an ‘almost 90% increase’ in the sum of decayed, missing and filled permanent teeth for primary teeth (from 3.0 to 5.6) and a fourfold increase in those >6 years old, ‘the percentage of caries-free persons had decreased from 74.5% to zero in 8 years…While 50% of the children in 1955–1957 had caries-free primary teeth all the children had decayed teeth in 1965…The most dramatic change was observed in individuals 30 years of age or older. In this previously caries-free group, all subjects had developed caries in 1965’.1 Thus, the Alaskan Inland Inuit that had subsided on a diet virtually devoid of carbohydrate for most of their life who did not have any dental caries between 1955 and 1957 had all developed dental caries by 1965; in the interim, the intake of carbohydrate had increased by 50%."

Here's also an interesting sidenote regarding the evolution of cavities:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2012/12...

"Stanhope and his colleagues were also able to pinpoint some of the genes that were important for Streptococcus mutans’s adaptation to civilization. Fourteen genes, for example, show signs of having experienced strong natural selection. Some of those evolved genes are essential for breaking down sugar. Others help the bacteria survive in the acidic conditions that arise in the mouth when we eat starches.

Perhaps most intriguing of all the genes in Streptococcus mutans are the 148 that Stanhope and his colleagues found in every human strain, but in none of the related bacteria in the mouths of other animals. The best explanation for this is that Streptococcus mutans picked these 148 genes up from other species in our bodies. Once Streptococcus mutans grabbed these genes, it didn’t let them go.

The function of the genes hints at their value. Some provide additional help at breaking down sugar. Others create more defenses against low pH. Others produce toxins that can kill off other species of bacteria that are competing with Streptococcus mutans for the spoils of civilization.

These adaptations have made Streptococcus mutans spectacularly successful, and they’ve also provided us with a lot of misery. The cavities would be bad enough. Archaeological evidence indicates that cavities went from rare to common with the advent of agriculture. Making matters, worse, however, is the fact that when Streptococcus mutans gets into the bloodstream through the gums, it can make its way to the heart and cause problems there, too."

Re: Our ancestors ate a Paleo diet and it had carbs

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having consumed something for a long time doesn’t mean that thing fits our health goals today. e.g. saturated fat contributes to heart disease but didn’t stop us from reproducing.

There is no evidence that it causes heart disease: "Collectively, neither observational studies, prospective epidemiologic cohort studies, RCTs, systematic reviews and meta analyses have conclusively established a significant association between SFA in the diet and subsequent cardiovascular risk and CAD, MI or mortality nor a benefit of reducing dietary SFAs on CVD rick, events and mortality. Beneficial effects of re…

He’s a short video takedown of that paper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBFe1QattAU
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