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Lessons from a Professional Password Cracker

themarkup.org

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Re: Lessons from a Professional Password Cracker

#91
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this still true now that LM hash v1 support has been dropped?

NTLM v2 isn't much better https://twitter.com/TerahashCorp/status/1155128018156892160/...

It is much better but v1 is simply so terrible ‘much better’ is very far from good enough.

Re: Lessons from a Professional Password Cracker

#93
post #78
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a solved problem in a minor baltic state. We have id card, which contains client authentication certificates. The procedure on acquiring ID card is the same as passport and carries the same legal power. You have to show up in real life and they take your fingerprints, photo and issue you ID card. ID cards will actually be mandatory for everyone beginning 2023-01-01 - up until now they are optional but very much…

I long wondered about this... How does card reading work? Are regular smartcard readers compatible? Does the card have NFC for phones? Can you use them under Linux/mac? Do regular browsers work with it? (FIDO/webauthn). Or is the card reader a standalone device, like my bank uses, where you key in your PIN, and it gives you a one-time code, or a response to a challenge?

It's a smartcard. I have DELL Business class laptop with built-in smartcard reader. Otherwise you can get a compact device that reads smartcard chip. Some keyboards have card readers. https://m79.lv/arejiedatuneseji/atminaskarsulasitaji/id-smar...

No NFC. Don't think smartcards has anything to do with FIDO.

As for phones, there is an application that has to be setup using computer/smarcard reader and from then on, I can use app to authenticate & sign.

Re: Lessons from a Professional Password Cracker

#94

Some rules of thumb: All Windows passwords shorter than about 10 characters shouldn't be considered secure, as the NT Hash at this point is so easily reversible that it's basically a "light obfuscation" at best. A single GPU can crack all 8-character passwords in minutes. The single best security setting on a Windows network is to increase the minimum password length to something like 14 characters. Use 20+ for privi…

> The third thing is to match against specific leaks. E.g.: if you have john.smith@foo.com and there is a leak of his email and password where the password matches your records, force a password change immediately. I’ve wanted to do something similar but how would you do this without direct access to HIBP’s data? I don’t want to send customer email addresses to a third party, at least not without a contract.

For what it's worth RE: HIBP, the lookup is never actually done on an email address. If you use the API (https://haveibeenpwned.com/API/v2#SearchingPwnedPasswordsByR..., or https://api.pwnedpasswords.com/range/3E398 to see the API result), you transmit 5 characters of the SHA1 hash of the email address and check if the full hash is in the list.

This makes it possible to use the API without worrying about user privacy as long as you keep checking the email addresses, even after indicators of compromise. Suppose spam@jeroenhd.nl is in the list is the only email address with 0xABCDE as the start of the hash, and the full hash being 0xABCDE0000; now bizniz@dijonman2.com happens to have the hash 0xABCDE1234. You transmit ABCDE to the backend, but even with the unique five letters of spam@jeroenhd.nl, how can the server possibly know if you're checking spam@jeroenhd.nl (a listed entry) or your own address? The server provides the list of hashes (only 0xABCDE1234) and you verify on your end that 0xABCDE1234≠0xABCDE0000, proving that your email is unlisted.

On average, the returned amount of hashes is claimed to be 381-584. That means that even if your customer is on the list, they're at best one of the ±478 hashes (on average) in the response if they're even listed at all!

The full explanations is here: https://www.troyhunt.com/understanding-have-i-been-pwneds-us..., it's worth a read if you're interested. In practice, I wouldn't worry about your customers' data in this case, because you're not really sending anything identifiable to a third party.

There are less privacy conscious APIs to HIBP, but the range search is probably the easiest and most private way to get the checks done.

All of that said, I use random passwords for every service I use and I'd very much like to opt out of your auto reset system. I'm in favour of adding the feature (more websites should, in my opinion!) but I don't like to be forced to change my already unique password if I don't have to.

Re: Lessons from a Professional Password Cracker

#95
post #17

Hey, I keep seeing people claim biometrics somehow fix the password problem, but I feel like this is just a password you can't change? I can't change my fingerprints nor my retina, but if that data ever gets leaked, then that's vulnerable forever? In my mind, there's no world where one could make a biometric scanner that couldn't be spoofed (presumably with an arduino USB interface) and then when all these corporatio…

The service doesn't store your fingerprint. Your fingerprint is just the unlock-key for the hidden password manager in your device.

That's why you can't just change phones, and then login with your fingerprint without setting everything up again.

Re: Lessons from a Professional Password Cracker

#96

Some rules of thumb: All Windows passwords shorter than about 10 characters shouldn't be considered secure, as the NT Hash at this point is so easily reversible that it's basically a "light obfuscation" at best. A single GPU can crack all 8-character passwords in minutes. The single best security setting on a Windows network is to increase the minimum password length to something like 14 characters. Use 20+ for privi…

> The third thing is to match against specific leaks. E.g.: if you have john.smith@foo.com and there is a leak of his email and password where the password matches your records, force a password change immediately. I’ve wanted to do something similar but how would you do this without direct access to HIBP’s data? I don’t want to send customer email addresses to a third party, at least not without a contract.

You HAVE direct access to HIBP data. Albeit hashes only which are enough to tell if password has been compromised before or not. You can download pwned passwords list and do checks locally: https://haveibeenpwned.com/Passwords

Re: Lessons from a Professional Password Cracker

#97

I use this password for all my accounts: BingoBongo77. Is it secure? Edit: oh crap

Don't worry, all I can see is ••••••••••••. The browser builds in technology so that it conveniently shows you your password (BingoBingo77), but all I can see is ••••••••••••. Neat, right?

Bingo =?= Bongo

Re: Lessons from a Professional Password Cracker

#98
post #19

I'm surprised a password cracker would advocate switching to biometrics, the one type of password you can't change.

That's not quite the case.

Things like FIDO Yubikey are basically a password unlocked by biometric information so someone needs the key AND your biometric information to unlock it. Even if someone knew your "biometric" information, they would still need the key.

Re: Lessons from a Professional Password Cracker

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policies like this one is what makes people write their passwords on post it notes. It's hard to create new memorable passwords every month or two so people will either keep using a pattern or be forced to write it down on paper. MFA is the way to go.

If the company is forcing password rotations every couple of months they’re too broken to successfully handle this anyway.

I worked at a place that had such policies; it is a national engineering lab. They are owned (mostly, some are joint ventures with universities) by the Department of Energy (who builds and owns America's nukes - they're just leased to the Dept of Defense). While my lab had nothing to do with nukes, some of the other labs made them. So we got many of the same security policies that Los Alamos had. Which meant it took me about 45 minutes to figure out a new password that wasn't too close to one I previously used, nor did it have a 3+ letter word in any language (I have no clue which languages they tracked) forwards or backwards.

Re: Lessons from a Professional Password Cracker

#100
post #52
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All those biometric information could be leaked, sold by corrupt civil servants or exchanged with other countries so random passwords generated by a password manager protects me more than biometric information. Am I wrong? I know of zero biometric implementations where your biometric data is uploaded to the server for verification. All the biometric implementations I've seen (windows hello, icloud passkey) perform b…

I think user pmontra meant that biometrics recorded by authorities could leak then be used to log in as you in your devices/services.

>then be used to log in as you in your devices/services.

That requires you to get physical access to the device, which puts the attack in an entirely different realm than just "password cracking".

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