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Get in zoomer, we're saving React

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Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#91

Post by greggman3 »

parasti wrote: post #74
b0afc375b5 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't read the article, but just based on the passages you have quoted and based on my recent experience, I will have to agree with the author. I recently learned that GitHub has a discussions page which is separate from the issues pages. To pass the time and to give back to the community I try to help people and answer their questions. It's a bit concerning to me that when I point some people to the right directi…

This isn't a new phenomenon. This strategy is proven to work largely because of people like you who put in time and effort to answer those types of questions with quality information. Stack Overflow was literally built on this very premise.

On the one hand I hate help vampires who appear to show no effort and just want "gimme da codez!"

On the other hand, it's impossible to remember what it was like to not know something. So often, just giving hints isn't enough. When I used to spend too much time answering S.O. questions I tried to, as often as possible, include a working snippet. One, to prove the solution worked, but two, so the questioner could start with working code.

Starting with working code is the number 1 thing for me because then I can start adding to it until it breaks and can always go back to working.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#93

Post by LtWorf »

wokwokwok wrote: post #79
Existenceblinks wrote: post #13

> Crucially, none of the React alternatives solve this FFS. The context is the web, nobody solves graphic problem like gaming for you, or need to. At this point it doesn't matter because HTML/DOM stuff is not going to suffice what you are talking about either. I honestly think after reading 50% of the article is all about bragging knowing history. I'm not old but I was there too. WIN32, MFC, QT, 8086 assembly whateve…

> FFS. The context is the web, nobody solves graphic problem like gaming for you, or need to… I don’t think you understood the article. The point he was making is that a good user interface is hard to build and is “app like”, with all the weird edge cases. …and that, for better or worse: 1) react is the best at doing that. 2) react is (frustratingly) not making itself better at it, and is instead prioritising weird s…

But why can't we make an app if we need an app?

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#94

Post by LtWorf »

b0afc375b5 wrote: post #65
mwcampbell wrote: post #44

> What's really frustrating about all this is how passive and helpless the current generation of web developers seem to be in all this. It's as if they've all been lulled into complacency by convenience. They seem afraid to carve out their own ambitious paths, and lack serious gusto for engineering. If there isn't a "friendly" bot spewing encouraging messages with plenty of emoji at every turn, they won't engage. > A…

I didn't read the article, but just based on the passages you have quoted and based on my recent experience, I will have to agree with the author. I recently learned that GitHub has a discussions page which is separate from the issues pages. To pass the time and to give back to the community I try to help people and answer their questions. It's a bit concerning to me that when I point some people to the right directi…

> I recently learned that GitHub has a discussions page which is separate from the issues pages.

The people who are good won't be using that.

When I was a student working on my thesis I realised I was too advanced to ask questions on stackoverflow and I would not be receiving useful help there. My issues were too uncommon and specific, because the simple ones that stackoverflow is good at solving were not blocking me.

I guess something similar happens there, with the extra thing that very few people know and use discussion pages.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#95

Post by lawgimenez »

Existenceblinks wrote: post #13

> Crucially, none of the React alternatives solve this FFS. The context is the web, nobody solves graphic problem like gaming for you, or need to. At this point it doesn't matter because HTML/DOM stuff is not going to suffice what you are talking about either. I honestly think after reading 50% of the article is all about bragging knowing history. I'm not old but I was there too. WIN32, MFC, QT, 8086 assembly whateve…

I only made it to the first paragraph.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#96

Post by WHATDOESIT »

silisili wrote: post #73
nl wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wisdom" of elders should stand on its own by being well reasoned. If someone needs to say "listen to your elders" then they aren't able to articulate their argument well enough to stand without it. (I've been programming much longer than the 32 years claimed by the article author. No one should listen to me because I'm old, except in the case where I'm talking about specific incidents I witnessed that younger people…

> except in the case where I'm talking about specific incidents I witnessed that younger people didn't All in interpretation. I implicitly assume 'listen to your elders' is about experience, not age. Perhaps others read that differently. I don't think anyone is arguing a young PHD should do what an old chimney sweep tells him just because he's older. Unless of course said advice applies to PHD somehow.

The problem is that it's what inexperienced elders say to force their opinion on you.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#97

Post by samsquire »

xigency wrote: post #52
a_wild_dandan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't React templating as well? Nope! You can make React apps with just a plain ol' JS file (and doing so is frankly instructive). Most folk add in JSX for extra syntactic sugar tho, so the confusion with templating is understandable.

You can, but who does?

I wrote a GUI framework that uses React API directly.

It's more proof of concept than useable, the idea is that we don't actually have to write layouts, we can just describe the layout with code or a template language and let the computer work it out.

https://github.com/samsquire/additive-guis

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#99

Post by fifticon »

I agree with this guy. I can see that his tone unfortunately irks many to take offense and post. I am sad that microsoft has so dropped the ball on UI, that even MS' own teams use web tech to build apps nowadays.

I particularly lament that scroll bars have become a lost art. We have gone from scroll bars working perfectly in windows 3.1, to .. whatever passes for a scrollbar these days.

Often they are even hidden, so you have no idea how big the document is,or where you are in it. But it sure does look minimal and slick, until you have to actually use the thing. Many established keyboard shortcuts are going missing,but that is OK, since modern people dont like keyboards.

My favorite is when installing current windows 10, when you select language and country. You get a list that displays .. 4 items at a time, from hundreds of choices. Unlike earlier versions, you can no longer press a key to jump to a letter. You must page through the whole list. Sorry if I made more millenials cry.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#100

Post by tuukkah »

Existenceblinks wrote: post #13

> Crucially, none of the React alternatives solve this FFS. The context is the web, nobody solves graphic problem like gaming for you, or need to. At this point it doesn't matter because HTML/DOM stuff is not going to suffice what you are talking about either. I honestly think after reading 50% of the article is all about bragging knowing history. I'm not old but I was there too. WIN32, MFC, QT, 8086 assembly whateve…

He does not mention gaming once though. The web quickly got to the point where UIs are possible, but lately there's seemingly little or no progress in making app-quality UI possible let alone easy.

In this sense, we might be in a situation where the floodgates are about to open, but who and what is able to make it happen?

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