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Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

reuters.com

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Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#91

Post by theplumber »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #70
anony999 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is 100% sovereign? Any kind of treaty makes you less "sovereign". I believe it's the same question about freedom. Are you a free person if you have a job, pay mortgage or marry someone?

> Who is 100% sovereign? 100%? Only those with a nuclear deterrent, and maybe not even them. Otherwise, there is always a bigger fish. Edit: I can see some people don't believe me. Do you really think treaties are more than paper if you don't have force to back them up? The US has threatened to invade the Hague if they try to charge Americans with war crimes. Went beyond mere threats in fact, congress and Bush the yo…

>> Do you really think treaties are more than paper if you don't have force to back them up?

There is a foce that can build up. If the U.S starts going rough someone else will take its place. We've already seen pieces moving during Trump's term. U.S's soft power helps it more than you think.

North Korea is more "sovereign" than the U.S. in your book. Good economic and political relations with your neighbours can make you more powerful than being a sovereign lunatic.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#92

Post by function_seven »

themitigating wrote: post #87
djbebs wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting provides legitimacy to the winner of the election and to the election process itself. If you disagree with both of those things, voting has no positive and results only in negatives.

If it has no positives what are the negatives?

Providing legitimacy to parties or institutions that you reject.

Simpsons did it: "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos"

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#93

Post by earth-adventure »

em-bee wrote: post #59
Semaphor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been preaching that for years, but I can certainly see where "it doesn’t matter anyway" comes from.

but it doesn't matter. all parties pander to a majority to get votes. minority interests are ignored everywhere, and consequently none of the available parties have any redeeming qualities that make them a better choice than the others. the whole system is broken. the parties waste most of their energy to fight each other instead of cooperating to actually solve problems. i want to throw out the whole lot and replace…

At this point in time, on this planet - not as far as I know. It's against human nature. It's why I love Star Trek TNG, as cheeky as it can be at times, it's always reasoning about human behavior and defining its shortcomings. And trying to overcome those.

Maybe the Swiss with their voting on all issues system, are a step in the right direction.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#95

Post by bonzini »

themitigating wrote: post #90
RegnisGnaw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there is a choice. You get "Person A" from the CCP or "Person B" from the CCP. I mean even in the DPRK, you can vote for whoever you want. Its what happens afterwards..

So you are claiming in the DPRK voting is rigged? Do you have proof of this?

In DPRK there is only one choice on the ballot that you can optionally cross out to disapprove. That doesn't happen often or at all; I suppose they'd know who does it based on the time it takes to vote.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#96

Post by whimsicalism »

themitigating wrote: post #88
whimsicalism wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The process of voting is legitimate. What do you mean by this? If I (a dictator) were to hold an election but require 90% approval to unseat me, that would be a "legitimate" process because it includes voting? Do you not understand what I am saying? > What about protesting the system by not voting, does that do anything? Arguably yes. Afghanistan's state legitimacy collapsed as basically fewer than 10% of people vo…

What event in Afghanistan are you referring to and can you prove it was because of a lack of legitimacy due to lack of voter participation?

The fall of the government in Kabul. I'm not saying this is the single causal event, but lower than 10% voting definitely contributed to a lack of legitimacy of the central govt leading to its fall.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#97

Post by [deleted] »

hok wrote: post #55
Semaphor wrote: post #3

Our data retention laws get overturned all the time. Usually already by our constitutional courts. Sadly our politicians don’t care much and don’t get punished, so they just try it again and again and again and usually it’s in effect for a while before the courts give judgement. I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. edit: The last sentence is sarcasm

The fact that a court overturns a law is proof that our democracy actually works. No need to be 'verdrossen'. It would be worse if the courts just approves all laws the government conceives.

[deleted]

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#98

Post by aksss »

kurupt213 wrote: post #94

I would think it’s also against the spirit of the bill of rights, yet here we are in America, with secret courts reviewing secret surveillance and meta data.

And it's not even a secret process half the time - witness the recent conversations about CBP imaging phones of intl travellers.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#99

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

dane-pgp wrote: post #2

I'd be interested to know if the EU law that the ECJ relied on differs from or goes further than the case law from the European Court of Human Rights that the UK is still a member of. A ruling against mass data retention in the UK could help Privacy International in their on-going case against the government for its mass surveillance and use of "bulk personal datasets". https://www.privacyinternational.org/long-read/…

Doesn't sound great:

"allows, for the purposes of safeguarding national security, an instruction to be given requiring providers of electronic communications services to retain, generally and indiscriminately, traffic and location data in situations where the Member State concerned is confronted with a serious threat to national security that is shown to be genuine and present or foreseeable. Such an instruction must be subject to effective review, either by a court or by an independent administrative body, and can be given only for a period that is limited in time to what is strictly necessary, but which may be extended if that threat persists"

-- that is just asking for a "perma-emergency" to justify such an exception for a long time until the court can (years later) maybe decide that that goes go far.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#100

Post by [deleted] »

sva_ wrote: post #78

I posted this earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32909698 I don't care about the points, just think it is a bit weird that a promotional commercial company post is now on the frontpage instead of a more neutral news site. Although now, Reuters would probably be the better source than what was available earlier today: https://www.reuters.com/technology/indiscriminate-data-reten...

[deleted]
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