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South Korean prosecutors say Do Kwon 'obviously on the run', asks Interpol help

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Re: South Korean prosecutors say Do Kwon 'obviously on the run', asks Interpol help

#91
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point would not be weakened if you left ethnicity out of it, but risks coming across as un-credible and conspiracy driven with the addition. I'd recommend an edit.

No, he's not accusing Jews of "running the world" or anything like that. It's a fact that Madoff focused on finding victims of the Ponzi scheme in his community, which is not at all unusual (MLMs often encourage their participants to sell to their friends and acquaintances, for example). As a well-off American Jew himself, Madoff went after his community of well-off American Jews, calculating correctly that their in-…

Here's a writeup in Jewish Journal at the time.[1] Wikipedia for background.[2]

Madoff is important in relation to crypto scams for a number of reasons. He showed how to run a successful Ponzi - pay good, but not unreasonable returns, and be very reliable about servicing withdrawal requests. That kept the scam going for 17 years. Few Ponzis last that long. Most of the crypto Ponzis can't manage either of those goals, but the "staking" crowd is trying. "Staking" is really just a High Yield Investment Program.[2] (There's real staking with proof of stake Etherium, where you're guaranteed by smart contracts to get back the ETH you put in, although it might be worth less when you get it out. But most of what's called "staking" is just a loan.)

The overall market collapse in 2008 finally caused a collapse of Madoff's scheme. This, too, is typical of crypto schemes. They can't survive a downturn. As long as "line goes up", it's not clear what's a Ponzi. People who point out that the numbers don't work are derided for spreading "FUD". When line goes down, the whole thing collapses. Which is what happened to Terra. The relationship between TerraUSD and LUNA (now LUNC) didn't help, either. The stablecoin maintenance system minted unlimited amounts of LUNC trying to prop up TerraUSD. The end result was LUNC dropping from $117 to $0.0003051, with a total supply of 6,904,017,889,662 LUNC. The $1 stablecoin dropped to $0.03497. (Forum comment: "Don't worry,don't be afraid. The whole market has collapsed. Buy & Hold. Luna Classic pump will start soon." This is typical of mass-market Ponzi schemes - even after being fleeced, many sheep retain hope. There's less of that at the high end, where investors usually kick themselves for being suckered, then lawyer up.)

Key takeaway: little of what happens in crypto is new. Most of the schemes go back to at least the 18th century. Most crypto enthusiasts don't know enough financial history to get this.

[1] https://jewishjournal.com/news/united-states/67582/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-yield_investment_program

Re: South Korean prosecutors say Do Kwon 'obviously on the run', asks Interpol help

#92

Do you think really $43 billion lost? Or rather that was the theoretical peak valuation? It just seems a staggering amount of money to be available for a new startup crypto project. Hmm, wonder if Do Kwon is reading this :)

Your point is obviously correct and a good reality check, but it sparked a curiosity: Why don't we routinely treat financials reported in this way in the same manner? It seems we do take these "peak valuation" projections a bit on face value and compare potentially high-illiquid assets which are priced at that number with straight up cash in ways that (like this example beautifully illustrates) are , if not outright incorrect, probably very misleading in terms of being an accurate representation of reality. Why is that?

Re: South Korean prosecutors say Do Kwon 'obviously on the run', asks Interpol help

#93
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, it's kinda funny that you mention gold bugs. Because gold shares a lot of properties with Bitcoin, and therefore should be considered a sham by most of HN. Yet somehow it sits currently at $1,670/oz and is owned by all major central banks in the world.

We could argue (and agree) that Canada isn’t major, but their central bank sold off their bullion gold reserves ~ 2 decades ago. And finished off its hodl of gold coins ~7 years ago. https://www.kitco.com/news/2022-05-26/Gold-is-an-antique-ins... https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gold-canada-reserves-1.3443...

Canada exports large amounts of gold - it’s one of their export commodities. 14B/yr typically.

You don’t need to stick it in a bank when you’re digging it up in a those volumes every year.

Re: South Korean prosecutors say Do Kwon 'obviously on the run', asks Interpol help

#94
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thousands of years of cultural significance enables gold to be assigned more value then it otherwise would have.

Exactly. There are plenty of other precious metals that could have been used for the same purposes as gold (e.g., platinum, palladium, iridium). But they aren't. For various historical reasons.

But elements are not interchangable and have important differences in properties, difficulties in refining, and workability.

Gold is tremendously useful for many applications and I believe all that you mentioned are brittle in comparison. I believe it's also rarer than a few on that list.

Mainly, I've heard a few people in my life contend that we only arbitrarily decided that gold has a use, or that it's mostly hype. I don't think that's the full case. It's workable, useful, biocompatible, profitability extractable, and obviously stunningly pretty. Not so much just culturally significant just on a whim or something, it's useful.

Re: South Korean prosecutors say Do Kwon 'obviously on the run', asks Interpol help

#95
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large scale infrastructure? Yeah that's pretty much always built by governments. This has held true for millenia, over hundreds of different societies. But yeah, just a fluke I'm sure. Thank God crypto is here to knock some common sense into the world.

Women in a high elected office? Up until the 1920s men were pretty much always governors in the United States. That held true for hundreds of years, over hundreds of different elections. But yeah, just a fluke I'm sure. Thank god women are here to knock some common sense into the world. Transport on land? Yeah that's pretty much always done by horse. This has held true for millenia, over hundreds of different societi…

And crypto solves this… how?

Re: South Korean prosecutors say Do Kwon 'obviously on the run', asks Interpol help

#96
post #16
post #15

I'm confused about this story. Are the South Korean authorities claiming Kwon is no longer in South Korea? He has a young family (with a child less than a year old) as far as I know, where are they?

Singapore as far as I read on an article.

Singapore authorities claim he has left the country [1].

[1] https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/government-economy/police-s...

Re: South Korean prosecutors say Do Kwon 'obviously on the run', asks Interpol help

#97

Do you think really $43 billion lost? Or rather that was the theoretical peak valuation? It just seems a staggering amount of money to be available for a new startup crypto project. Hmm, wonder if Do Kwon is reading this :)

Your point is obviously correct and a good reality check, but it sparked a curiosity: Why don't we routinely treat financials reported in this way in the same manner? It seems we do take these "peak valuation" projections a bit on face value and compare potentially high-illiquid assets which are priced at that number with straight up cash in ways that (like this example beautifully illustrates) are , if not outright…

I guess the simple answer is the largest number makes for a more exciting artical. And how many journalists actually know and understand the details anyway. I do wonder what the actual amount of hard cash that was lost was. I guess five hundred million dollors lost in confusing crypto project in a land far away is not as snappy as $43 billion lost.

Re: South Korean prosecutors say Do Kwon 'obviously on the run', asks Interpol help

#98
post #82
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also non-trivial to guess a private key or to run a 51% attack.

Judging from empirical results it is quite easy to steal crypto currency; it happens all the time. I don't know why you only care about those two approaches.

Because leaving Bitcoin on a hot wallet, which is the source of most of these hacks, is like leaving gold bars on a park bench.

Re: South Korean prosecutors say Do Kwon 'obviously on the run', asks Interpol help

#99
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women in a high elected office? Up until the 1920s men were pretty much always governors in the United States. That held true for hundreds of years, over hundreds of different elections. But yeah, just a fluke I'm sure. Thank god women are here to knock some common sense into the world. Transport on land? Yeah that's pretty much always done by horse. This has held true for millenia, over hundreds of different societi…

And crypto solves this… how?

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