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Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

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Re: Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

#91

Post by kfreds »

FredFS456 wrote: post #10
PhilippGille wrote: post #5

> Something that makes the key unique is the fact that both its software and hardware are open source Aren't SoloKeys [1] also open hardware and software? Or is the Tillitis key more general purpose and thus not in the same category? [1] https://solokeys.com/

My understanding is that it's both a more general platform (targeting more than 2FA) and also uses an FPGA running open-source code, so that the "secure enclave" functionality can be inspected and found to be secure, rather than just trusting NXP/ARM's chip as SoloKeys have done.

Good explanation. Thank you.

Re: Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

#92

Post by ecesena »

dbrgn wrote: post #74

Are you aware of Trussed, an initiative by SoloKeys and Nitrokey? https://solokeys.com/blogs/news/trussed-announcement / https://trussed.dev/ From what I understand, this is an API to write applications against a common interface, which can run on different hardware devices. An abstraction layer for security key apps. Similar to Java Card, but in a more modern way. Is this something that would or could be compatible…

I've been dreaming of a fpga-based key since I read about precursor. Not sure if it's yet possible to power it via NFC. But with this said, sharing at least the FIDO implementation would be outstanding.

Re: Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

#93

Post by ecesena »

FredFS456 wrote: post #10
PhilippGille wrote: post #5

> Something that makes the key unique is the fact that both its software and hardware are open source Aren't SoloKeys [1] also open hardware and software? Or is the Tillitis key more general purpose and thus not in the same category? [1] https://solokeys.com/

My understanding is that it's both a more general platform (targeting more than 2FA) and also uses an FPGA running open-source code, so that the "secure enclave" functionality can be inspected and found to be secure, rather than just trusting NXP/ARM's chip as SoloKeys have done.

Correct. I think the difference is just NFC.

If you want to power your key via NFC (tap to phone to authenticate), you need a micro which consumes very little, powers up quickly and can do a signature before the FIDO protocol times out. I'm not sure this is currently possible with a FPGA, but maybe it is.

Re: Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

#94

Post by RL_Quine »

JoachimS wrote: post #70
ptman wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTR SoloKeys targets FIDO2, not just U2F

The TillitisKey should be able to be used for FIDO2, as a TOTP generator etc. Right now there is a SSH agent application, which allows you to sign in by touching the device. Personally I'm very excited to see what applications will be developed at the hackathon at the OSFC conference, and onwards. We have had people at the conference showing interest in trying to write applications in Rust. I will try and implement a…

SSH supports FIDO2 so I'm not really sure the purpose of having an agent.

Re: Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

#95

Post by kfreds »

dbrgn wrote: post #74

Are you aware of Trussed, an initiative by SoloKeys and Nitrokey? https://solokeys.com/blogs/news/trussed-announcement / https://trussed.dev/ From what I understand, this is an API to write applications against a common interface, which can run on different hardware devices. An abstraction layer for security key apps. Similar to Java Card, but in a more modern way. Is this something that would or could be compatible…

Yes, I'm aware of it. I'm not sure if it's small enough for the Tillitis Key to be able to use it.

Re: Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

#96

Post by bestham »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #67
kfreds wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tillitis Key is a new kind of USB security key inspired by measured boot and DICE. Tillitis Key’s design encourages developers to experiment with new security key applications and models in a way that makes adoption easier and less risky for end-users. It offers both security and flexibility by being end-user programmable while also preventing applications loaded onto the device from knowing each other’s secrets.…

@kfreds thank you for the response, and the commitment you have for this project. >> ... this is basically like a yubikey ... > ... new kind of USB security key ... The things you have listed are indeed very nice, but they are not new kind, as they are available elsewhere. Can you give a bit more compare and contrast to the original question? Again, thank you.

No, the integrity is within the device. You load the small (64k) apps onto the key and the content of the apps with the unique key for the device can be used by the app to perform cryptography and their integrity can be audited. This is similar to JavaCard with cryptographic integrity of the applets. Read more at: https://github.com/tillitis/tillitis-key1/blob/main/doc/syst...

Re: Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

#97

Post by fleventynine »

From the photo, that looks like a stock iCE40 FPGA, which does not support hardware attestation of the loaded bitstream. How does the user verify that the FPGA loaded the expected bitstream instead of something with a backdoor? A DICE chain that is not rooted in physical, immutable hardware isn't very useful.

Re: Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

#98

Post by dtx1 »

Being FPGA Based from what i can tell is a brilliant idea. This makes it possible to fix hardware level security issues. I've been shocked by the recent exploit found in google pixels security chip since i rely heavily on it (using graphene os). An unfixable hardware level bug in it would turn my phone to e-waste for me. This solves this quite elegantly.

Re: Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

#99

Post by AviKav »

kfreds wrote: post #35
Havoc wrote: post #4

Am I right in thinking that this is basically like a yubikey except with openness as key differentiator? Or is it’s function something else ?

The Tillitis Key is a new kind of USB security key inspired by measured boot and DICE. Tillitis Key’s design encourages developers to experiment with new security key applications and models in a way that makes adoption easier and less risky for end-users. It offers both security and flexibility by being end-user programmable while also preventing applications loaded onto the device from knowing each other’s secrets.…

> A user- or host-supplied secret can also be mixed into the key derivation function

To clarify, this secret does not affect the program's hash, right? (e.g. to prove liveness, the parameter is a nonce to be signed with a deterministic private key)

Re: Tillitis Key – Mullvad spin-off inspired by measured boot and DICE

#100

Post by fiat_fandango »

JoachimS wrote: post #87
fiat_fandango wrote: post #82

So basically a pluggable HSM? Curious if this should be considered more similar to the Yubi HSM 2 [0] (think dedicated HSM, not very useful for anything else but very secure) or the USB Armory [1], very adaptive small arm SBC with a USB port? [0] https://www.yubico.com/product/yubihsm-2/ [1] https://inversepath.com/usbarmory

Or CrypTech: https://cryptech.is/ There are things developed by the CrypTech project I would like to try and reuse for TillitisKey.

Very cool, thanks for the link! This context helps a ton :)
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