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Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

arstechnica.com

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Re: Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

#91
post #69

And people wonder why EU citizens data should never leave EU to USA without any legal guarantees from USA.

The great Chinese firewall is far more effective than the GDPR. They outright ban US corporations such as Google or Facebook from operating in their country or retain control over the data and networks of companies such as Apple.

By all means, let's laud the Chinese firewall with its twin guiding principles of authoritarian censorship and IP theft.

Re: Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

#92

I believe I am not the only one here whose blood boils at such a news story. Thank you EFF for investigating this. My question is, what can we do to fight such oppressive surveillance mechanisms as individuals? Beyond the standard donation to EFF and such. In my rage I want to see the Fog Data Science people prosecuted and the police depts which unquestioningly used their product stripped of their post, but what powe…

> what can we do ... as individuals

Nothing. An individual is weak.

> what power do we have as a collection of individuals to work

This is the right question to ask!

First of all analyze where does power need to be applied to change this practice. State/Fed lawmakers? Courts? Apple/Google? The data brokers? DoJ/State Attorneys General? The FTC? Police Depts themselves? All of the above?

Next, for each of these analyze what would make them change course. For example, via courts a relevant legal challenge and adequately funded counsel is obviously one element, but in truth Judges pay attention to factors outside the courtroom like public opinion, re-election campaigns (for elected judges). Not only that but in the long term which judges are sitting is something that can be influenced either by elections or the appointer.

Then consider how do we build organizations that get the power to apply that influence. For example funding the EFF, ACLU et al is great for the "a relevant legal challenge and adequately funded counsel" part, but they do a bad job with public opinion and don't even attempt the other parts. So you can seek out or start organizations that do those elements.

Or alternatively imagine you want the US DoJ to step in. Well, ultimately high level DoJ serves the political needs of the current administration, so pressure needs to be applied there. Sadly in the US this is a very difficult angle but it's possible (see: tea party!). For other issues I might suggest joining DSA or something like that, but I don't think that's relevant here. Possibly making a stink within the Democratic party would be effective.

As you can probably see, this fans out to a large number of different organizations with different strategies along the way. You can join and support multiple of them, but it's not really practical to do everything so you have to pick a bit. This is why you need to think through what you believe is a viable strategy and find organizations you think are effective.

Re: Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

#93
post #3

So how does that work? I install some app that "needs" location data to function and in the EULA I "consent" to that data being sold. Police then buys this data via several proxies. So far so "told you so years ago". But how does police use that data? How do they associate account IDs from all these apps to real persons? Is that data collected and sold as well, e.g., via the payment processing? Do they use the email…

When you power up a mobile/cell phone, the handset transmits a handshake to all mobile/cell bases it can hit. Handshaking between mobile/cell phone and mobile/cell bases continues somewhere between every 10 to 20 minutes. Data exchanged include; IMEI [1], IMSI [2], and both handset transmit power level, receiver power level to each mobile/cell bases databases. Coupling both the mobile/cell bases databases and the loc…

Yes, but this data is held by the cell phone companies. Based on the article, this is using "data from apps in accordance with their legal agreements" so that doesn't seem to be the source.

I hope cell phone companies require warrants for the data (they should per Carpenter v. United States) although I don't really trust them.

Re: Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

#94
post #79

“Fog Reveal” sounds marketed to gamers and military cosplayers. Chilling to think that’s who’s making decisions in police departments.

Their marketing dept probably wanted to add "the punisher" logo to it

Re: Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

#95
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t followed them enough but is it possible to support them without supporting other charitable causes of a political persuasion I don’t support? I fully support everything directly related to their cause but it gets me very upset when charities are supporting other various agendas around gender/immigration for example that are unrelated to their main goal.

To say that agendas around "gender and immigration" are unrelated to the EFF's goals is missing the point. You can guarantee that if society moves towards criminializing trans people, or further demonising immigrants, or tracking women's fertility for the purposes of further restricting access to abortion; surveillance technology will be at the forefront of that effort and the EFF's goals of technological privacy and…

No post body was provided.

Re: Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

#96
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what you don't understand is how it got so bad in your country? Pervasive, always-on, and presumed surveillance that cannot be opted out of is not a healthy environment for anyone.

No, what I don't understand is why ppl here who are "fighting for privacy" are not explicit/loud about this law.

Because they are afraid?

Re: Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

#97

There is a simple way to avoid this. You do not have to carry a cell phone/tracker at all times. Stop taking your tracker transmitter with you everywhere. Or simply turn it off/remove the battery. I know a lot of people will say that cell phones are too useful to turn them off. And that's fine and reasonable. Just be aware they literally are tracking devices and it is your choice. There will be no legislative solutio…

The latest iphones even can be tracked while off through apples find my network (Bluetooth based). It can be switched off. But it poses some interesting questions.

Re: Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

#98
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t followed them enough but is it possible to support them without supporting other charitable causes of a political persuasion I don’t support? I fully support everything directly related to their cause but it gets me very upset when charities are supporting other various agendas around gender/immigration for example that are unrelated to their main goal.

>that are unrelated to their main goal given that we're commenting on a thread about invasive police surveillance it's pretty funny to think there's no very obvious correlation to immigration. Which groups do you think are among the most targeted by law enforcement surveillance tech? People who get hung up on this, what's the underlying mindset? "I love privacy for white dudes, but god forbid they accidentally help a…

No post body was provided.

Re: Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

#99

I believe I am not the only one here whose blood boils at such a news story. Thank you EFF for investigating this. My question is, what can we do to fight such oppressive surveillance mechanisms as individuals? Beyond the standard donation to EFF and such. In my rage I want to see the Fog Data Science people prosecuted and the police depts which unquestioningly used their product stripped of their post, but what powe…

> My question is, what can we do to fight such oppressive surveillance mechanisms as individuals? Beyond the standard donation to EFF and such.

I don't think there is much beyond that to be honest. Those people are the experts and, honestly, a big difference between this country and those that we would not like to become is that we are able to make such a donation without repercussion.

In a lot of other places, such activism would have severe consequences.

Re: Cops wanted to keep mass surveillance app secret; privacy advocates refused

#100
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t followed them enough but is it possible to support them without supporting other charitable causes of a political persuasion I don’t support? I fully support everything directly related to their cause but it gets me very upset when charities are supporting other various agendas around gender/immigration for example that are unrelated to their main goal.

Once you start following them I think you will find that they are very focused and have been quite successful at not diffusing into other areas.

It seems en vogue for every organization to have a position on every topic du jour but the EFF has done well to avoid, at the very least, taking action outside of their scope. I don't keep an eye on any social media of theirs or anything so I can't speak to what they are out there _saying_ but I don't tend to read about them spending money on scope creep.
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