Live data from Hacker News

Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

medicalxpress.com

91–100 of 114 posts

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#91
post #66

The real question is whether it's a good thing to stop "mind wandering" when it hasn't reached the level of disorder. From the perspective of evolution, it almost certainly has a purpose. Paul Graham pointed out that its probably useful for problem solving: http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html I wonder if it would be good to have the ability to better focus one's self when one's mind is wandering into unproductive subj…

I think we need to differentiate between different types of wandering here. I think we can agree that letting our minds roam looking for creative solutions and creative questions is a good think. But it's less useful to have our minds stuck in a loop ("Peanut butter or jam? PB or J?" ad infinitum). Anecdotal evidence based on four years of active meditation would in my case seem to indicate that the jittery loopiness…

Anecdotal evidence based on four years of active meditation would in my case seem to indicate that the jittery loopiness lessens while the capacity for creative wandering increases.

This is exactly my experience as well. After about three years of meditation I have also found that I almost never get angry any more - things that used to piss me off or frustrate me just kind of roll off now, and I can really think more objectively about them and tackle problems in a constructive way.

I think one of the keys with meditation is to become the observer of our thoughts and not self-identify with them. You are not your thoughts.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#92
post #85

An interesting detail to add: at least one mental health expert has told me that meditating on a regular basis can be a very powerful tool for fighting depressions and other psychological issues; the number of patients suffering from those issues amongst people who have been meditating for years seem to be extremely low. Now a question for all you hackers: how to get started on meditating without running into the arm…

I found this to be a good introduction: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#93
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if this sounds clueless, but is that religious at all? I'm looking for something not religious since I am an atheist. Thanks!

While I cannot speak to that link, I can say that Buddhism is an atheistic religion.

If I understand the Buddhist teachings correctly (and I may not) there is no ‘religion’ here in the sense of a theology, afterlife, deity, etc. I guess we can define religion in a number of ways but those characteristics seem to me to be essential elements.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#94
post #17

I learned to meditate by reading and listening to Krishnamurti (among many others). "Meditation is not different from daily life" he says. "It can be done all day." It's exactly like being in the zone that you get into when you code, play video games, run, exercise, etc. You can do it better and without needing a crutch activity by consciously shaping your thought/energy patterns; by constantly focus your mind on pur…

by constantly focus your mind on pure observance and acceptance of all that exists in the current moment I'd like to follow up, please, on what these words mean. Does "acceptance of all that exists in the current moment" mean that demonstrators at Tahrir Square should be accepting of a dictatorial government? I'm curious about this issue, because I lived for several years in a predominantly Buddhist country that was…

Personally I interpret a large part of acceptance as stopping the endless stream of "what-if?"'s and doubt and stress and fear surrounding what happens in our lives.

When faced with an event, ruminating endlessly about what might have been if you did X instead of Y, or worrying about what might come next stops you from actually being free to focus your attention where you want it: On what deliberate action you should be taking, and on enjoying the good things in your life.

And that might have the effect of inaction in many cases. For "common people in that country" you mentioned it might very well be that on consideration an uprising was far down the list of what actually mattered to their lives. I don't know what impact it had on their day to day lives, and how that measures up with other things, such as caring for their families and making a decent living. Or maybe "acceptance" had nothing to do with it and they were just scared.

But priorities shift once you take a more deliberate view and are not driven by anguish about a situation but about considering carefully what actually matters to you.

A simple example:

You look at the clock, and realize you're late. There's no way you can make it to where you were meant to be in time.

You can choose to get stressed out and frantic, but it's already too late - you won't change that, all you achieve is to be stressed out and frantic and running around like a headless chicken while life passes you by.

Does it matter if you're late?

Maybe it does, but it still doesn't help to stress out about it when you should instead focus on what the best course of action is. Perhaps it is as simple as a phone call to let someone know you will be late. Perhaps you miss a train, but can just take a later one. Why stress over it? Even if being late is a disaster, the stress achieves nothing. It is unhelpful and just makes things worse. So you accept that you will be late and take deliberate action to minimize the impact of being late, and you accept the consequences you can't mitigate rather than make things worse by feeling sorry for yourself.

Maybe it doesn't matter, and you should just breathe calmly and accept that you will be late and since it's not such a big deal you proceed as you otherwise would and enjoy your walk wherever you were headed and take in the view and enjoy the nice day. Maybe you won't look at the clock in the first place, because you know it does not really matter what time it is.

Most things people get terribly worked up over are never worth caring much about in the first place, yet we get worked up and stressed out and make stupid mistakes or feel miserable for no good reason. Focus your attention and energy on the things that are worth caring about, and even then try to make a clear distinction between deliberate action and feelings or actions that are not helpful.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#95
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've pondered the same thing. However, personally from meditation I feel I have greater focus, a clearer mind, and less stress (or a much better handle on stress), which I couldn't imagine being without today. Concerning shower-insights -- I find myself having less mind wandering in the shower, and instead more deliberate focused insights.

Then what evolutionary purpose do you think mind-wandering serves? We clearly tend to think about various current problems of ours (whether technical, social, or other) when our mind wanders; it's not an accident.

I don't agree with this.

What you describe is rumination. Rumination has been demonstrated to be beneficial in resolving problems. Depressed people ruminate a lot, and I remember seeing at least one article (don't ask for a reference - I don't remember where) that claimed that this was because rumination worked as a tool to get us to focus on resolving a problem.

Rumination is an indication of focus, not of a wandering mind, even though it might superficially seem like wandering because we turn to rumination all the time whenever we have "spare cycles" and there is something important on our mind.

Meditation might also affect rumination in that it changes your mindset and a lot of the things that you previously thought was massively important and worth ruminating about start turning into inconsequential non-events to you, but that's entirely separate from reducing "wandering", and meditation won't stop you from ruminating on things you really care about (though it might train you to be more focused on when you do it and not let it cut into your relaxation, for example).

But what I at least think of as the mind wandering is the type of random chatter that leads you to go check Hackernews one second because it popped into your head that you hadn't checked it for five minutes, and leads you to grab a snack the next because you suddenly felt an urge for sugar, and have you sit and blankly dream about that vacation you'd wanted to book a few minutes later.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#96
post #92
post #85

An interesting detail to add: at least one mental health expert has told me that meditating on a regular basis can be a very powerful tool for fighting depressions and other psychological issues; the number of patients suffering from those issues amongst people who have been meditating for years seem to be extremely low. Now a question for all you hackers: how to get started on meditating without running into the arm…

I found this to be a good introduction: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html

Second Mindfulness in Plain English. It is excellent, and though written by a Buddhist monk it is for the most part careful about separating the (little) material on Buddhism out as mostly contextual information, and point out that it is not necessary for the meditation practice itself.

I also recommend a series of podcasts by Gil Fronsdal at Audiodharma called Introduction to Meditation: http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/

It covers largely the same approach as Mindfulness in Plain English and fits great in with the book. It contains a series of short guided meditations.

It is also "cult free". While Fronsdal is Buddhist, he deliberately makes fun of how being a Buddhist or knowing much about Buddhism isn't necessary, for example by pointing out how mindfulness meditation is being taught as a stress reduction technique at places like Kaiser but "without mentioning the B-word", and that's about the full extent of the mention of Buddhism in the recordings.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#97
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked Daniel Ingram's Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha , online at http://www.interactivebuddha.com/mctb.shtml .

Sorry if this sounds clueless, but is that religious at all? I'm looking for something not religious since I am an atheist. Thanks!

Most resources you find will have origins in Buddhism. Ignore it. I'm an atheist too, and while I can't speak to the link above, look up Mindfulness in Plain English for another source that, while written by a Buddhist, is pretty much an "instruction manual" where you can just ignore every mention of spirituality and Buddhism (there aren't many of them beyond giving some context in the introduction). While I groaned once or twice (a mention of levitation...), the spiritual/religious content in that one is light enough that it should be easily tolerable for all but the most rabid hardline atheists.

It's available for free at urbandharma.org (there's a direct link elsewhere in this thread, that I'm too lazy to look up) or you can get a hardcopy from Amazon.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#98
post #36
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should add an about page. A meditation self-tracking tool sounds interesting (I've just started sitting zazen), but I'm going to need some details before I hand over my email.

Not to dis BrainBot, but the only Zazen tracking tool you need is to sit Zazen every day. I can see how competition and seeing your hours tick over might be encouraging to some degree, and if the site encourages people to sit more then it is worthwhile! But I see enough chest puffing on the 'net as it is with regards to people's meditation, and how amazing they are now because of it or how much they are sitting, and…

"Your practice should be personal, for you (and the big you) and should be a part of your Bodhisattva work, not a device used to enlarge your ego."

Why not? People train at the gym to better themselves (and thus enlarge their ego). Why should meditation be any different?

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#99
post #85

An interesting detail to add: at least one mental health expert has told me that meditating on a regular basis can be a very powerful tool for fighting depressions and other psychological issues; the number of patients suffering from those issues amongst people who have been meditating for years seem to be extremely low. Now a question for all you hackers: how to get started on meditating without running into the arm…

For me, The Mindful Way Through Depression was a good starting point. I was never really depressed, but I feel that without that book, I might have gotten to the point of real depression.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindful-Way-Through-Depression-Unhap...

It's written by four western doctors, so there's no cultish things here. It's also about the practice of mindfulness in general, not just mindfulness meditation. There's an audio guide to meditation included.

Other books By Jon Kabat-Zinn could also be useful introductions.

Then, pretty much everything by Alan Watts is interesting. He's an excellent speaker and there's tons of his audio lectures available online. Watts has a peculiar way of being able to introduce the listener to very complex information, without being off-putting.

If one want's to read about the benefits of mindfulness meditation, there's a great number of scientific studies done in the past 30 years or so.

Re: Tuning out: How brains benefit from meditation

#100

The real question is whether it's a good thing to stop "mind wandering" when it hasn't reached the level of disorder. From the perspective of evolution, it almost certainly has a purpose. Paul Graham pointed out that its probably useful for problem solving: http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html I wonder if it would be good to have the ability to better focus one's self when one's mind is wandering into unproductive subj…

People should also be aware that meditation, while generally beneficial, does not always have a benign effect on the mind. Look up "meditation induced psychosis".

Actually the best place to learn more is probably this two-part talk from Buddhist Geeks:

http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2011/09/bg-231-the-dark-side-of...

There is very little academic literature on meditation sickness, so this is probably the best source for information right now.

Post reply on HN