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I hope Apple never adopts RCS

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Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#91

Post by maw »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #36
donkeyd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may have caused WhatsApp to get big in much of the EU, but by now many European countries also have unlimited text, so it's not the case any longer.

I thought high costs for international SMS and MMS is what caused WhatsApp to explode. I remember it being the first app with great UX for sending and receiving pics/video/contacts, and then they added group messaging which worked great as well. No spam because you needed SMS text verification, no ads, no login to remember, just all around amazing app at the right place at the right time.

Yep, all this.

The only thing I'll add is that, ca 2012 which is when whatsapp started really taking off where I live, intercarrier SMS was slow and unreliable. WhatsApp was fast and reliable.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#92

Post by klabb3 »

ale42 wrote: post #18
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #4

The SMS/RCS/iMessage/blue bubble-green bubble debate is almost entirely exclusive to the strange market of the US. Almost everywhere else in the world, users have simply adopted a variety of 3rd-party messaging apps that use the phone's Internet rather than GSM connection, like WhatsApp, Telegram, Messenger, Signal, WeChat, etc. EDIT: While I understand the need for a 'universal E2EE messaging standard', we don't hav…

I really hope that interoperability between (some of) these platforms, mandated by EU, will actually come true. Thing is, SMS is ancient technology, but it does work everywhere, on any kind of device, even on the dumbest one. All the other 3-rd party apps are (a) requiring an Internet connection to work, which most people have, but some don't, having limited data plans or prepaid accounts where data is way too expens…

> SMS is ancient technology, but it does work everywhere

Nowhere near true. As soon as you cross a geo boundary (ie travel) SMS is Russian roulette. It often doesn't go through at all. In the US, I've also seen carriers remove non-ascii characters.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#93

Post by jaywalk »

throw0101a wrote: post #90
jaywalk wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that if we're going to finally replace SMS (which we should) then we should replace it with a protocol that's better. Saying "you can get spam on SMS, so who cares if RCS can spam you too?" is ridiculous. Maybe 20 years ago RCS would have been a nice protocol. Nowadays, it's utter trash. We need a proper, interoperable standard that doesn't involve carriers. RCS is not even remotely it.

And in the meantime, I—an iPhone owner—should not be able to have group chats with my Android-using friends? "The perfect is the enemy of the good." RCS may not be perfect, but it seems to have nice things over and above SMS. I have no objections to adding more nice things to RCS (or whatever comes after it), but why shouldn't we implement the nice things of RCS in the meantime?

For all intents and purposes, progress stopped with carriers after MMS came around. Hey, you can send pics and videos now! And group messages! It's good!

RCS requires carriers to implement it. We don't need RCS, we need something better. I'm not opposed to stopgaps, but the complexity involved with RCS makes it much more than just a stopgap. Which is why it needs to die.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#94

Post by jaywalk »

throw0101a wrote: post #86
jaywalk wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we (Apple brand fans) must adopt a garbage standard (RCS) just because the brand you're a fan of (Google/Android) created and adopted it? RCS is crap and needs to die. Apple and Google should work together on a better standard.

> RCS is crap and needs to die. Apple and Google should work together on a better standard. And in the meantime, I—an iPhone owner—should not be able to have group chats with my Android-using friends? "The perfect is the enemy of the good." RCS may not be perfect, but it seems to have nice things over and above SMS. I have no objections to adding more nice things to RCS (or whatever comes after it), but why shouldn't…

What's stopping you from having group chats with your Android-using friends? I have plenty of them on my iPhone.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#95

Post by danaris »

throw0101a wrote: post #86
jaywalk wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we (Apple brand fans) must adopt a garbage standard (RCS) just because the brand you're a fan of (Google/Android) created and adopted it? RCS is crap and needs to die. Apple and Google should work together on a better standard.

> RCS is crap and needs to die. Apple and Google should work together on a better standard. And in the meantime, I—an iPhone owner—should not be able to have group chats with my Android-using friends? "The perfect is the enemy of the good." RCS may not be perfect, but it seems to have nice things over and above SMS. I have no objections to adding more nice things to RCS (or whatever comes after it), but why shouldn't…

> And in the meantime, I—an iPhone owner—should not be able to have group chats with my Android-using friends?

There are how many different cross-platform messaging apps?

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#96

Post by jaywalk »

vidanay wrote: post #81
jaywalk wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we (Apple brand fans) must adopt a garbage standard (RCS) just because the brand you're a fan of (Google/Android) created and adopted it? RCS is crap and needs to die. Apple and Google should work together on a better standard.

If Apple were really interested in a standard, they would be promoting iMessage as a standard. Instead, when Google proposes RCS, they just sit and shake their head and say "no, not good enough."

That's a totally separate issue, and I generally agree with you. Apple should put in some work on this as well, and they have not.

But that still doesn't mean RCS is good.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#97

Post by jaywalk »

chrismorgan wrote: post #78
jaywalk wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fantastic that you have a mobile number that works. How can you use it on a WiFi-only tablet to send messages to people using that number? Yeah, I know, you use third-party apps for that. That's not the point.

Haven’t done it on a tablet , but from my laptop I SSH into my phone and run sxmo_modemsendsms.sh ‹contact-name-or-number› ‹message›. :-)

Ah, sorry. I didn't realize this problem was solved for the general public already :)

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#98

Post by tmottabr »

Semaphor wrote: post #80
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fragmentation of these third party apps gets frustrating very fast though. Agreed, although where I live, most people have consolidated on Telegram. WhatsApp was popular about 5 years ago, but its popularity has quickly waned because of how difficult inter-device use is.

> because of how difficult inter-device use is. Huh? What is difficult there?

several.. truth is that whatsapp was made to be used in one device only and is not frindly to be used in multiple devices at the same time.

Until recently (like days ago) you still needed the main device to be online and connected to their server to use the both the web or desktop apps, although for some time there was a beta going for the feature they released a few days ago where that is "no longer required".

Even so, i was on the beta of the new feature where you could use the web or desktop app without the phone since it started and it has its quirks.. Often it fail to load either the history or even new messages, messages sent on the main device often do not show in the web\desktop app and performance is overall terrible.

Also there is still no official way to have the same whatsapp across multiple phone\tablets devices.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#99

Post by danaris »

throw0101a wrote: post #90
jaywalk wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that if we're going to finally replace SMS (which we should) then we should replace it with a protocol that's better. Saying "you can get spam on SMS, so who cares if RCS can spam you too?" is ridiculous. Maybe 20 years ago RCS would have been a nice protocol. Nowadays, it's utter trash. We need a proper, interoperable standard that doesn't involve carriers. RCS is not even remotely it.

And in the meantime, I—an iPhone owner—should not be able to have group chats with my Android-using friends? "The perfect is the enemy of the good." RCS may not be perfect, but it seems to have nice things over and above SMS. I have no objections to adding more nice things to RCS (or whatever comes after it), but why shouldn't we implement the nice things of RCS in the meantime?

If we globally adopt RCS now, we're likely to be stuck with it for the next 20 years.

I'd rather hold out for something that's more than a tiny incremental improvement over SMS.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#100

Post by Semaphor »

tmottabr wrote: post #98
Semaphor wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of how difficult inter-device use is. Huh? What is difficult there?

several.. truth is that whatsapp was made to be used in one device only and is not frindly to be used in multiple devices at the same time. Until recently (like days ago) you still needed the main device to be online and connected to their server to use the both the web or desktop apps, although for some time there was a beta going for the feature they released a few days ago where that is "no longer required". Even…

Never had issues with the beta (before it, I simply did not use WA), but then I also never used it heavily.

> Also there is still no official way to have the same whatsapp across multiple phone\tablets devices.

That seems dumb. Luckily not an issue for me.

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