Another good memo - less controversial :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32513917
Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”
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Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”
#92Another good memo - less controversial :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32513917
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Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
What other examples can you think of? And how many Republicans have you tried discussing the consequences of abortion with? Recent polling[1] doesn't seem to agree with your characterization, so maybe you have just had bad luck with your delivery or respondents? 1: https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/HHP...
Guns "Freedom of speech" to say _whatever_ on twitter etc Vaccines being good Anything that helps another person is "socialism" Not sure about a poll of 1300 people, have you tried changing a hardline Republican's mind? I dunno, I grew up in PA/OH so I have a lot of republican friends. I gave up trying to show them the other side.
Spoiler alert: I'm probably what you'd call a hard line Republican
That said, yes, I've changed the minds of people with fixed ideals, many times, over several decades. Step one is to listen to them without trying to.
> Guns
What is the mindset that needs to be changed? Republicans, as a bloc, support the right of anybody of sound mind and character (presumptive prerequisites for being part of a potential [and hopefully unnecessary] well regulated militia) to own a gun. They're pretty flexible about restricting edge cases, as long as those edge cases don't grow to be standardized restrictions. Maybe you think nobody should own a gun, I dunno, but if that's the case it seems like the kind of extreme absolutist position you're complaining about.
> "Freedom of speech" to say _whatever_ on twitter etc
Again, what's the argument here? I can guess you are dog-whistling about how Republicans just want to use racial slurs or something, but it's just a guess and if I'm right then that's a pretty strawman type assumption. Republicans want to not be removed from a pseudo-public forum for holding a minority opinion - surely you can empathize with that framing?
> Vaccines being good
Republicans as a whole are fine with vaccinations, and most are vaccinated many times throughout their life. Don't let the backlash to COVID-19 trick you into thinking they aren't vaccinated for other things. Also, don't confuse vaccines with vaccine mandates, c'mon, no wonder you can't change their minds if that's what you're doing.
> Anything that helps another person is "socialism"
OK I'm beginning to think you're not being honest with your experiences. That is a very gross mischaracterization (in both the senses of disgusting and wholesale). Maybe you mean they are against the idea of welfare payments or wealth redistribution? Those are pretty nuanced concepts even still, so you really gotta get into a proper discussion. Based on these examples you've provided, I have a hard time believing you have really attempted to have a conversation with a Republican, or maybe you have just had very bad luck as I said earlier.
If you want to change minds, you have to know where they are and where you want them to be, and have a path for them to get from A to B.
I bet you and I agree on a lot of things if you'd just be willing to listen.
Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whether you understand it or not you have taken an extreme political position. “Their politics are politics. Our politics are ethics/human rights.” It’s all politics and refusing to see that is extremely divisive.
If we look back at my example. Would you say the same thing to the Ukrainian making that point? If not, we agree that there is a line at which politics end and extremism begins, that is not an extreme political position. This also doesn't mean, one shouldn't try to discuss or interact with them, but be wary of what the reality is.
Politics is politics.
A religious person who believes absolutely in no murder might think that Ukrainians have a duty to retreat; land isn’t worth the price of a single life. Many others feel differently.
But how personal ethics and belief tie into law and governance IS politics.
Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let’s say I’m a corporation who gives marital benefits. But some of my employees can’t get married because the state doesn’t allow gay marriage. Should the corporation not take a stance? Should corporations not have taken a stance about doing business in South Africa before apartheid was abolished?
Taking a stance does nothing in either of these scenarios except send signals to people.
So they shouldn’t extend health care benefits to an employees partners when they couldn’t legally get married?
Even paying for birth control as part of a woman’s health care benefit is consider political
Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even that, which I have not seen evidence that the median shoe is produced by Uyghur labor, is not comparable to the middle passage & chattel slavery.
In what way do you believe they are substantially different?
In places where colonial chattel slavery was practiced, like Brazil, mortality rates were massive, living conditions were unimaginable, and people were bought and sold.
The average African slave in Brazil lived to be 23 years old.
The forced labor of interned Uyghurs, while reprehensible, is just not the same. Moreover, most shoes are not made with forced labor AFAIK.
Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”
#97Businesses are supposed to be separate entities from the individuals who own them. I don't understand why people think businesses need to be political. If that's the case then just start your own Political Action Committee.
>Businesses are supposed to be separate entities from the individuals who own them
That doesn't really apply when your business is essentially selling your own image and personality.
Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Burgers?" https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/are-you-sure-this-will-help-u... The meme creator is unfortunately quite racist. I see it is a problem if extremists are the only ones comfortable making certain obvious true statements. It attracts the support of people who might otherwise remain moderate.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sir-this-is-a-wendys is the meme OP was referring to. I do like your observation that "only extremists feel comfortable making certain obvious true statements" I'm going to have to think on that one. It seems to me that is a very bad place for public discourse to be in.
It's incredible how far the Overton window has moved in only a decade. This nonpartisan Channel 4 fact-check on race and crime matches numerous criteria for "hate speech" under Reddit's current policies:
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-amer...
Channel 4 is considered a fact-based, center-left news outlet:
Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
If we look back at my example. Would you say the same thing to the Ukrainian making that point? If not, we agree that there is a line at which politics end and extremism begins, that is not an extreme political position. This also doesn't mean, one shouldn't try to discuss or interact with them, but be wary of what the reality is.
Politics is politics. A religious person who believes absolutely in no murder might think that Ukrainians have a duty to retreat; land isn’t worth the price of a single life. Many others feel differently. But how personal ethics and belief tie into law and governance IS politics.
I understand your viewpoint, but can't agree with you. Dismissing everything as just politics and giving every viewpoint the same validity would mean that "rape should be legal" and "raising the tax by 1%" are equally valid positions or opinions to hold. Sure, there may be people which would agree with that assessment and calling one viewpoint extreme might seem be divisive to you or ignoring that it's just politics. But I can't agree with you. I find that notion absurd.
Re: Michael Jordan: “Republicans Buy Sneakers Too”
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Politics is politics. A religious person who believes absolutely in no murder might think that Ukrainians have a duty to retreat; land isn’t worth the price of a single life. Many others feel differently. But how personal ethics and belief tie into law and governance IS politics.
I understand your viewpoint, but can't agree with you. Dismissing everything as just politics and giving every viewpoint the same validity would mean that "rape should be legal" and "raising the tax by 1%" are equally valid positions or opinions to hold. Sure, there may be people which would agree with that assessment and calling one viewpoint extreme might seem be divisive to you or ignoring that it's just politics.…
A non straw man of your first argument would be the definition of “rape.” Most people believe forced sex should be illegal.
But rape also means consent, in America, so you get “statutory” rape, and Romeo and Juliet laws, and different handling of intoxication all over the world. If two people are black out drunk, can either rape the other if they ostensibly agreed while intoxicated? Does it matter the sex of the participants?
Look no further than any Reddit post and you will see that at least some people think a 17 year old male having sex with a 25 year old female teacher should not be considered rape.
The definition of rape is unequivocally political.