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Modern Malaise

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Re: Modern Malaise

#91

Post by seydor »

roenxi wrote: post #89
seydor wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a basic principle of biology which fractally translates to entire societies. Piketty's data shows that historically, the curve was flattened only when the economy itself was upended, i.e. after wars. We need to engineer peaceful ways that violently rearrange the economy. A parallel money system like cryptos might have been used for that, but so far it has done the opposite

> We need to engineer peaceful ways that violently rearrange the economy. Why not simply make sure that life is comfortable on the tail end of the of the curve and call it a day? The simple fact that so far only war makes the curve flatten suggests that this is not a curve we want to flatten. Nobody comes through a war feeling good.

Define 'comfortable'. It's always relative as people aspire to be what others have become. Wars have always happened, naturally, so it's nothing 'unnatural', and perhaps nature's way to flatten the curve. Our current feelings about war may or may not be correct - wars have many benefits too.

Re: Modern Malaise

#92

Post by Gatsky »

I think one just has to acknowledge there are no feasible solutions to these problems. The actual solution is to let the next generation do a better job, and believe that they can. Unfortunately, as people live and work for longer, the cycles get more drawn out and some generations lapse with no impact.

Re: Modern Malaise

#93

Post by JackMorgan »

seibelj wrote: post #50
archhn wrote: post #39

Most of us feel it. It's real. Don't let anyone gaslight you. You aren't sick: our culture is sick. (For those alone and struggling). Social alienation is the source of much mental illnesses. Poverty itself isn't the source of most people's misery. Our society is our preservation matrix. If we cannot reproduce or at least contribute to something beyond ourselves that bears the promise of persisting, we are left alone…

I believe in hard work, sacrifice, and family… ideals and virtues that have provided solace and guidance to humanity for our entire existence. It seems to be the hyper-online types that reject traditional values that are the most depressed and apocalyptic in their mindset. Myself - I look outside and the sun is shining, my kids are playing, everything is good in the world to me.

I'm legitimately happy you are content and satisfied.

I have a half dozen coworkers who value family, church, and hard work. Most of them are stress-eating themselves to death. They binge shop on Amazon, buy cars and houses they can't afford or enjoy, and generally seem to hate going home at the end of the day. I've seen them beg to be allowed to come back into the office, so they can escape their family. They seem to have loveless marriages, and dread the weekend.

I don't agree that traditional values is the cure for all humanity's woes. Perhaps some of these people you talk about would be happier with a traditional life, but then perhaps some people with a traditional life would be happier with something more freeing.

And perhaps there's many more dimensions at play, not just values.

Re: Modern Malaise

#94

Post by JackMorgan »

bambax wrote: post #74

All true, but while listing all the reasons for being depressed, it curiously misses the state of the environment. And by that I don't just mean climate change. The terrifying truth of our time is that we are destroying life on this planet at an unprecedented rate; all life: not just megafauna but insects as well as forests, etc., in exchange for... building parking lots. We make the world lonelier and uglier and the…

I do not understand why this is downvoted. I see a fatalism in my peers that causes incredible stress. I think of animals that won't breed in captivity when there's too much noise or not the right food, but instead attack each other and self-harm.

We have high stress, lots of convenient unhealthy food, lots of noise and light, long hours, and the awareness that the planet is getting more hostile to human life. Of course we're biting and scratching each other, performing self-harm, and not reproducing.

Re: Modern Malaise

#95

Post by feet »

peyton wrote: post #48
feet wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't a representative government the opposite? When a large number of people work together to decide to funs or accomplish some goal, voting and taxes

So the liberal western form is not an exercise in working together towards some mutual goal. Rather it is in satisfying some baseline level of acceptance of how society works, property rights, etc. Power comes from the people, not by divine mandate or military might.

>Power comes from the people

Right, but that was my point. Its a step closer to people coming together to accomplish or fund some goal instead of just some rich guy saying "I have money, I'm paying you all to so this now"

Re: Modern Malaise

#96

Post by seydor »

roenxi wrote: post #88

I think this is under-calling both how miserable people were before the modern era and the remarkable impact good birth control has had on modern society. Suddenly there is lots of free time and a lot more choices to make than there were even 50 years ago and all the choices have unsatisfying outcomes. We live in a world that is too complex to understand, and people keep screaming that everything is about to collapse…

> how miserable people were before the modern era

Materially, maybe , but judging by the way people live in rural communities even today, it's closer to the truth that they were happier overall, as they had a social support net, more socializing than they can handle and more time in nature. It's a qualitatively different life than urbanized domestication

Re: Modern Malaise

#97

Post by quickthrower2 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #77
quickthrower2 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A top 1% on it’s own is not a problem. It is the power they have over everything to not only keep things that way but make life worse for everyone else. For example by lobbying for laws that help corporations not people.

I mostly agree, except corporations aren't being helped; people are. Might be through higher dividend payments to shareholders, higher salaries to employees or lower prices to consumers, but the corporation isn't a thing in itself that benefits.

Yes the corporations are a representative. Some are fully owned by a one or few people so their ethics align with those people for better or worse. Others are run by boards for shareholders but those board members ethics would come into play there. Then there are associations that lobby. So it is people but various groups acting in complex and different ways.

Re: Modern Malaise

#98

Post by CatWChainsaw »

jackcosgrove wrote: post #13
andrewmutz wrote: post #8

The problem is not that wages are growing too slowly, that is the symptom. The problem is that productivity is growing too slowly. Fixing the problem requires far more technology and automation than we have delivered.

If productivity grows primarily because of enabling capital, the proceeds from this growth will accrue more to the owner of capital than the laborer, roughly proportional to the contribution of each. The problem is that human capital has saturated for many people. This is borne out by stagnating gains in education. If productivity gains occur mostly because of technology with little human input, then that further bif…

Always a good read: https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

Re: Modern Malaise

#99

Post by nfhshy68 »

seydor wrote: post #96
roenxi wrote: post #88

I think this is under-calling both how miserable people were before the modern era and the remarkable impact good birth control has had on modern society. Suddenly there is lots of free time and a lot more choices to make than there were even 50 years ago and all the choices have unsatisfying outcomes. We live in a world that is too complex to understand, and people keep screaming that everything is about to collapse…

> how miserable people were before the modern era Materially, maybe , but judging by the way people live in rural communities even today, it's closer to the truth that they were happier overall, as they had a social support net, more socializing than they can handle and more time in nature. It's a qualitatively different life than urbanized domestication

Happiness has steadily decreased since social media has grown in popularity.

Re: Modern Malaise

#100

Post by svnpenn »

roenxi wrote: post #90
epgui wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because inequality beyond a certain excess makes a system unstable, and given the chance, even wealthy people would rather be wealthy in a stable world than an unstable world. There is not only one power distribution, there is a whole set of them.

Can you refer to any evidence that inequality makes systems unstable? There is no reason that I can think of for that. OnlyFans looks pretty stable, in fact. And It doesn't make sense that a political system gets unstable when some people get wealthy. Political systems fall apart when large numbers of people can't afford food (an issue which has nothing to do with equality).

https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake
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