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Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#91

Post by criley2 »

whittingtonaaon wrote: post #82

I already posted a comment on this, but forgot to answer the actual question. I don’t think it follows that it’s wrong to commoditize basic necessities. Take, for example, food: the reason just about everyone in the western world can afford food is BECAUSE it is commoditized. I would like the barriers to home ownership to be lowered. On the other hand, I don’t think the rental market is evil. A lot of people can’t af…

It's worth pointing out that when you say "people can't afford to buy homes" you don't mean that they can't pay the mortgage or maintain the building ~as well as a landlord, you mean that they don't have enough credit to convince a bank to buy the house and let them pay the bank monthly instead of a landlord.

Countries like China have ~80% home ownership rate amongst millennials (US is like 40%) precisely because they understand this: just because you can't convince a bank to give you a quarter of million dollars doesn't mean you can't reliably pay a mortgage.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#92

Post by andrepd »

bendtb wrote: post #75

Thomas Sowell - Basic Economics: Chapter 1: What is Economics? “The fundamental principles of economics are not hard to understand, but they are easy to forget, especially amid the heady rhetoric of politics and the media.” In Chapter 1 of Basic Economics, Thomas Sowell introduces the concept of economics, scarcity, and productivity: Economy – a system for the production and distribution of the goods and services we…

I've no idea what your point is supposed to be with this dump of opinionated definitions of economic terms.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#93

Post by killSp4m »

lr4444lr wrote: post #40

No, because governments' ability to procure it for the needy is a very separable problem. But let me play Devil's Advocate: agriculture, the foundation of the food supply, is one of the most commoditized markets that exist. Does this bother you too? Why not? If it's because food is generally a smaller part of income, highly responsive to market pressure to keep prices low in addition to some stabilizing subsidies fro…

Markets and capitalism are a social hallucination.

Biology does not care about our philosophy; it allows emotional bonds between officials and elites that are leveraged against the masses.

Write on paper all the rules you want, collusion will happen.

Your defense of this system that’s also screwing you is bizarre; conviction to spoken traditions versus actual analysis. Very brain dead following orders of you. Very religious missionary of you. Human biology is easily convinced it’s spoken words of power are what rule the world.

I mean so it is; if you get burned by it, oh well. Remember; if this system takes your life from you, none of us have an obligation to you.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#94

Post by WXLCKNO »

bendtb wrote: post #75

Thomas Sowell - Basic Economics: Chapter 1: What is Economics? “The fundamental principles of economics are not hard to understand, but they are easy to forget, especially amid the heady rhetoric of politics and the media.” In Chapter 1 of Basic Economics, Thomas Sowell introduces the concept of economics, scarcity, and productivity: Economy – a system for the production and distribution of the goods and services we…

Nice condescending comment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_ethics

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#95

Post by Schroedingersat »

mamonster wrote: post #24

Well when you say "human right" and a government insists that home ownership is something they will focus on as a human right in their program, to a finance person what you are really saying is "this asset has a free put option attached to it". And having a backstop like that is a very sought after feature for speculators. It isn't the only area where speculators take advantage of it( for example energy generation is…

Very simple.

Any residence you don't live in as your only exempt residence for at least 2 years out of 5 is taxed at 100% pa. Any land with above median value is taxed at a progressive rate if you do live on it.

Any commercial building you don't work in for a similar period is taxed at 20%

You want to develop? Fine. Just have to make sure someone else owns or will own the land/strata before you start and charge them for the development.

You want to rent out a building? Fine. Put it on someone else's land and if they don't renew the lease you have to remove it or give up claim to it.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#96

Post by jacknews »

burnerburnito wrote: post #71
jacknews wrote: post #23

IMHO the land belongs to all of us, like the air, and the water. ie '(wo)man is born free' rather than 'born to pay rent to a private owner until such time as they can buy a freehold and pass on the condition'. That doesn't mean you can't have exclusive use of some part of it, how else would we encourage people to take care of the land and develop it. But you should continuously pay everyone else for it's exclusive u…

>but you should continuously pay everyone else for it's exclusive use. So pay rent to the state instead of a private landholder? I found your first paragraph very agreeable and convincing, but this feels like it's just passing the problem on up to the state. Would you just be suggesting that any ownership of land outside of a a single home or apartment be heavily rented/taxed to the government, or literally all use o…

I think the logical consequence of the first paragraph is the second.

If the land belongs to everyone, but you want to occupy some part of it exclusively, you need to pay everyone else for the privilege. Not just one individual who happens to 'own' it through various historical doings. I'm not sure how you can 'pay eveyone else' except through some kind of 'state' mechanism.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#97

Post by atemerev »

There are no positive natural human rights, only the negative ones (rights to be free from violence, including bodily autonomy, freedom of speech, rights to keep property etc). There are no rights that have to be provided by others for free. If I need my own place to live, I am expected to earn money to rent or buy it; I can’t expect anybody to give me this for free, there is no “basic human right” for me to be kept under a roof.

Having said that, I am of course all for making housing more cheaper, and for disrupting the market in general, up to and including stopping the appreciation cycle. If you sell a used car, you will get less money than for a new car; the same should go for housing. The only thing preventing this are policies biased for existing homeowners; these are unnatural and should be repealed.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#98

Post by bigtex88 »

mamonster wrote: post #24

Well when you say "human right" and a government insists that home ownership is something they will focus on as a human right in their program, to a finance person what you are really saying is "this asset has a free put option attached to it". And having a backstop like that is a very sought after feature for speculators. It isn't the only area where speculators take advantage of it( for example energy generation is…

Implement a Land-Value Tax, as per Henry George's vision. All of the rent from land speculation will be returned to communities. Relatively easier to implement than other solutions (we already have assessors to determine the value of land + property) and should be an easy sell to most Americans, as most would see their tax burden drop dramatically.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#99

Post by Schroedingersat »

kasey_junk wrote: post #80
oblak wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poster above you (whittingtonaaon) proposed raising taxes on secondary, tertiary, etc. homes. That makes sense to me but "investors" looking for easy prey would surely hate on such solution. It's not like no one could have thought of this until now. I do not say this with the US in mind.

Why would landlords hate such a system. They can trivially pass on any tax to renters and have the incentives to figure out the loopholes in the tax code. It’s already common for single unit corporations to own rental properties. Instead of taxing based on who owns the land, tax how it’s used. That way more units will be built increasing supply. But then you’ll run into the real problem, not landlords, regular home o…

If it's taxed at least 100% of its land value +100% of its rental value they'll sell pretty quick.
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