Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

sf.streetsblog.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 100 posts

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#91

Post by xfitm3 »

floren wrote: post #35
xfitm3 wrote: post #34

I'd jump the turnstyles on exit. I am happy to risk the consequences vs paying to leave the station. That's just bananas!

The problem is that you're still marked as having entered the system, but never exited. So the turnstiles won't let you in next time you try to enter a station, as I understand it. The proper SF solution, based on my observations, is to just jump the turnstiles every time, going in or going out. I've watched guys camped out on the floor shooting up in clear view of the attendant, I assume if that flies they probably…

Ah, of course. Are single use tickets available on bart? Perhaps another workaround?

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#92

Post by danans »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #8
danans wrote: post #5

You can go to the kiosk at any BART station and the station attendant will put a sticker on your card to indicate that you are leaving via the same station you entered and allow you to exit via the emergency doors, therefore not incurring the excursion fare. This is in case you decide not to take the train, or forgot something at home. I suspect the excursion fare today is trying to disincentivize the use of the trai…

The system will have a record of you entering at one station, but no record of an exit. Will that result in a charge or other problem? (On the London Underground, it would result in a charge, as the system is designed to assume you exited somewhere but somehow managed to leave without tapping out.)

When you leave without going through the turnstile your card is locked and you can't re-enter via the turnstiles. That's what the sticker is for: it tells the station agent that you should be able to re-enter via the emergency exit.

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#93

Post by danans »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #28
CoffeeOnWrite wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re correct. When you try to enter next the turnstile will error out with “see agent”. That’s when they fix your card and peel the sticker off. Which highlights the total ridiculousness: they’re asking riders to see an agent twice!

> they’re asking riders to see an agent twice Even worse: they're asking NON-riders to see an agent twice

> Even worse: they're asking NON-riders to see an agent twice

Presumably on the second entry you will be riding the train.

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#94

Post by rahimnathwani »

danans wrote: post #93
rahimnathwani wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they’re asking riders to see an agent twice Even worse: they're asking NON-riders to see an agent twice

> Even worse: they're asking NON-riders to see an agent twice Presumably on the second entry you will be riding the train.

Maybe, but the number of times you need to see an agent is still 2x the number of failed ride attempts.

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#96

Post by aix1 »

digianarchist wrote: post #82
danans wrote: post #5

You can go to the kiosk at any BART station and the station attendant will put a sticker on your card to indicate that you are leaving via the same station you entered and allow you to exit via the emergency doors, therefore not incurring the excursion fare. This is in case you decide not to take the train, or forgot something at home. I suspect the excursion fare today is trying to disincentivize the use of the trai…

TTC stations in Toronto will not allow you to enter using Presto at the same station you have already entered. I assume this is to prevent "pass backs" but it also affects those that have entered on the wrong side of certain stations. The solution in absence of an attendant. Jump the barriers.

What's a "pass back"? I'm guessing some form of fare dodging, but could you explain the mechanics?

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#97

Post by duskwuff »

aix1 wrote: post #96
digianarchist wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TTC stations in Toronto will not allow you to enter using Presto at the same station you have already entered. I assume this is to prevent "pass backs" but it also affects those that have entered on the wrong side of certain stations. The solution in absence of an attendant. Jump the barriers.

What's a "pass back"? I'm guessing some form of fare dodging, but could you explain the mechanics?

I imagine it refers to entering the station using a ticket, then passing that ticket to someone leaving the station. (And, presumably, relying on someone else doing the same thing at the other end?)

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#98

Post by adrianmonk »

sbuttgereit wrote: post #70
adrianmonk wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it's possible (if unusual) to get value out of traveling within the BART system. For example, suppose you have a nice camera you want to sell to a friend. They live in Millbrae and commute to SF by BART. You live in north San Jose. So you agree to meet them on their way home from work, at 6pm right outside the Powell Street station. That's $16.80 for your Berryessa to Powell Street round trip. But what if you m…

Of course, you're right: it is absolutely feasible that such a valuable trip is possible and happens. You're right that a truly valuable trip is rightfully charged a fare. And finally you're also right that such trips are probably unusual. I would go so far as to say rare. What's much more common than that rare scenario is that, after paying a fare, you get down to the platform only to find that there's a long delay…

The point of my comment wasn't to take a position on whether the excursion fare is good or bad. That's a trade-off with pros and cons. Your position is that the cons greatly outweigh the pros, and you make a very reasonable argument for that.

However, what the original article said is different. It said the excursion fare "exists solely to make money" and "it is a scam" (emphasis mine). As if there is no conceivable rationale at all for the existence of excursion fares and the only possible way to see it is that BART is simply greedy.

BART may be greedy, or maybe they're just not seeing the balance of pros and cons. I don't know. I thought the article went overboard in being so confident that BART's motives are definitely nefarious.

TLDR: It's not that I'm favor of the excursion fare; it's that I'm against articles with hyperbolic melodrama.

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#99

Post by digianarchist »

duskwuff wrote: post #97
aix1 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a "pass back"? I'm guessing some form of fare dodging, but could you explain the mechanics?

I imagine it refers to entering the station using a ticket, then passing that ticket to someone leaving the station. (And, presumably, relying on someone else doing the same thing at the other end?)

Correct except fares are not routinely checked on the TTC so once you've entered you shouldn't experience any issues.

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#100

Post by throwaway313313 »

Alooong time ago before this kind of same station exit fee existed, it was very widely know among teenagers that you could buy a ticket with the lowest amount required so that you could exit the station and so what would happen would a bunch of teenagers would buy cheap tickets and then do all kinds of money saving maneuvers such as tail gating their friend or a stranger through the exit gate while holding their ticket in their hand just above the machine etc, so that they did not consume any fare at the far side yet still had a ticket visible and weren't jumping over the gate. It was super widely know and many kids would tour the whole bay area for super cheap on weekends if they had nothing better to do.

I'm just saying this is why they came up with that fee.

Obviously any adult with a real job wouldn't stoop to such antics.

Post reply on HN