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The endless search for a crypto use case

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Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#91

Post by discordianfish »

snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

It's useful for illegal stuff so far. But if it's the only real use case, governments can and will just outlaw exchange into fiat. Beside that, you still need to trust the developers. Sure, you can not partake in a fork but so you can decide to not do business with certain corporations or governments.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#93

Post by librish »

m348e912 wrote: post #55
rpmw wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this strikes me as odd too. My bank will instantly deposit transfers while the (free) ACH process takes time to clear. I can transfer up to something like $99,999 a day which is fine for my needs. At worst case a $15 fee to wire funds which I could probably get waived if I asked customer support nicely. There is also plenty of recourse in the unlikely event something goes wrong.

With crypto you don't have to ask nicely, you just send. Being your own bank has it's advantages (and risks).

You have to ask the exchange to give you your fiat.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#94

Post by treeman79 »

snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

Apparently Lego sets are used for money laundering. Since they hold value well.

https://nosafebets.com/2020/06/05/legos-the-new-gold-standar...

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#95

Post by NikolaNovak »

snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

>>These people got blocked by traditional payment providers but still received crypto.

I thought their crypto payments were tracked (open ledger) and basically nixxed? I.e. this was the grand counter-example of crypto use case :-We can discuss our personal opinion on the Canadian protests of Winter of 2022, but I strongly believe that for average citizen, Crypto payments leave a HUGE exposure / attack surface. YES, there's going to be a Hacker News person who can figure out how to safely transfer crypto, and maybe even do something practical with it, in duress situations; but I feel that would end up complex enough to be achievable effectively with other crypto-less, equal-complexity methods. Meanwhile, average citizen's ability to safely and anonymously and SAFELY use crypto under duress is extremely limited.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgmnpd/the-freedom-convoy-bi...

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#96

Post by cuteboy19 »

TheBlight wrote: post #53
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

Calling it a scheme seems a bit rough. It's a market mostly unencumbered by regulation (not true of on/offramps), online 24x7 and not directly controlled by governments -- an entirely new asset class with unique properties. It allows for new business/cause funding models. Anyone can participate regardless of "credit rating" or ideology and no one needs a custodian.

The reason you don't need a credit rating is because you need collateral.

Want a $5000 loan from crypto? Better have at least $20000 in crypto assets.

How anyone is expected to get credit funding from this strange system is unclear.

Also the no custodian part is especially strange considering that most people who have crypto keep it on some exchangebank

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#97

Post by trixie_ »

xadhominemx wrote: post #43
trixie_ wrote: post #6

The practical use case is pretty simple - being able to hold large sums of money yourself securely while being able to move it to who/where ever you want in less than an hour, 24/7, no questions asked. Before Bitcoin it was practically impossible to do this without a bank as an intermediary and even then would require large fees, talking with people, lots of hang ups, just to manage your own money.

What is the use case of that use case?

Say you want to move $ from service A to C, before Bitcoin it was not possible without a bank intermediary (B). There is processing time, high fees, business hours, etc.. So you’re handholding the process A to B then B to C.

With crypto I can move money directly A to C at 4am on a weekend, any amount, without talking to anyone for a tiny fee.

Or if I want to move it into my wallet and hold it personally I can do that do. Before Bitcoin that was literally impossible without physically walking into a bank.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#98

Post by danw1979 »

lake_vincent wrote: post #33
sudden_dystopia wrote: post #8

There is only one use case and that is the originally intended use, as a currency completely decoupled from any one country’s monetary meddling and thus liberating the populace from poor central planners and/or authoritarians. That’s it. That’s all there is to it.

Well said. I don't understand why there's always so much hand-wringing and pearl-clutching over crypto.

The energy requirements of bitcoin might go some way to explaining why people get a bit worried about if it’s got a real purpose or not ?

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#99

Post by immigrantheart »

game-of-throws wrote: post #32
snapcaster wrote: post #3

I mean it has good use cases they're not just the ones that scheme promoters want to be true. I know TFA pokes some holes in the censorship resistance attribute of bitcoin but i think everyone can agree it does provide value transfer solution that is much harder to block than Visa/Stripe/etc. 1). Silk Road or dark net markets in general. Can't be done with Visa or other existing solutions at any kind of scale 2). Fun…

My theory is that the likelihood someone understands the use cases is inversely correlated to their trust in government. For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789 These articles all follow a common pattern. 1. The trigger – Inflation/distrust in government/bank withdrawal restrictions/paypal freezes your funds/country is at war/etc 2. The response – People gravitate towards a system that is resilient to…

This is the only right answer. Pack it up.

For real, every time I try to answer my I do crypto, often people just don't understand. They just don't. They just don't understand why I don't trust entities.

If you don't understand this, then you don't understand crypto. Period. There is no other debate necessary. Period. Full stop. We go on our own way.

Full stop.

Re: The endless search for a crypto use case

#100

Post by naet »

game-of-throws wrote: post #77
xadhominemx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have no answer for the crypto on/off ramp issue.

If someone is trying to escape their local currency, they won't want an on/off ramp. In foreign nations with a large underground USD economy, people skip the local currency and trade/spend USD directly. The same could happen with BTC. In fact in the most extreme cases this transformation is already happening: https://www.reuters.com/technology/venezuelas-economy-regres... > But a major part of Venezuela's crypto oper…

I've used crypto for regular monetary transactions (selling art) and it's a huge pain in the ass compared to using actual currency. The idea that people are going to do day-to-day purchases with bitcoin is pure fantasy, it would be a huge step back from what most people are used to.

You pay fees for every single transaction: chain storage, gas, if you want to deposit or withdraw or exchange to another currency, etc; it's slow to go through and at peak times you get gassed out and it doesn't go through at all.

The value fluctuates wildly at all times of day, so your transaction might lose a significant percent of value before you've had a chance to even access it let alone trade it for a more stable currency or asset. Oh, and you have zero safety net for if something is entered wrong, a key is lost, if you end up not receiving the item you purchased, you're outta luck and there's no bank or credit card agency you can petition for a chargeback. Plus you lose ALL your money with no recourse if you can't keep track of a non human memorizable secret key, or if it gets in any way intercepted or stolen from your computer, or if you accept the wrong transaction...

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