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Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

carwow.co.uk

91–100 of 360 posts

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#91
post #48

Why not just tax the tires? Seems like they are good indicator on how much you are using roads and how many miles you drove etc. (Safety maybe an argument. Don't do it so people don't drive on shitty old ones)

Or just look at the odometer each year at the MOT

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#92
post #49

Or... maybe national taxes should pay for national roads as a form of national infrastructure, state or county taxes paying for state or county roads and local taxes for local roads. Isn't this the way roads were paid for before widespread use of personal vehicles? Roads are a shared benefit for all whether you own or drive a vehicle or not. Think of deliveries and public transport and other approaches in which you p…

It's a kind of substitute for tolls, an alternative pay-as-you-go system. Edit: of course it neglects that not all roads are created equal, some have a much higher cost and value per passenger-mile (e.g. bridges)

Tolls are paid by those who drive on the roads, not by those who benefit from the roads if they don't drive. That's why it's a shifted burden. Tolls and fuel taxes are paid by those who drive, not those who otherwise benefit. Just my opinion.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#93
post #73
post #49

Or... maybe national taxes should pay for national roads as a form of national infrastructure, state or county taxes paying for state or county roads and local taxes for local roads. Isn't this the way roads were paid for before widespread use of personal vehicles? Roads are a shared benefit for all whether you own or drive a vehicle or not. Think of deliveries and public transport and other approaches in which you p…

But then we wouldn't be able to put cameras everywhere and GPS trackers in people's cars?

The steady creep of surveillance posing as convenience.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#94
A road or car tax doesn’t have to go away just because the car is electric no? Am I missing something?

As for the fuel tax, why not make up for it with an increase in car tax once sufficient adoption is reached? Once 80% of cars are electric, the car tax increases by an amount required to make up for the average revenue from fuel. At that point, electric cars pay just a high car tax and fossil fuel cars pay both the high car tax and the fuel duty, further incentiveiseing the switch to electric.

Am I missing something? What would be the issues with this approach?

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#95
post #49

Or... maybe national taxes should pay for national roads as a form of national infrastructure, state or county taxes paying for state or county roads and local taxes for local roads. Isn't this the way roads were paid for before widespread use of personal vehicles? Roads are a shared benefit for all whether you own or drive a vehicle or not. Think of deliveries and public transport and other approaches in which you p…

In the UK local council tax funds local roads, and national government (funded mainly from income tax, national insurance and VAT) funds major trunk roads.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#96

A road or car tax doesn’t have to go away just because the car is electric no? Am I missing something? As for the fuel tax, why not make up for it with an increase in car tax once sufficient adoption is reached? Once 80% of cars are electric, the car tax increases by an amount required to make up for the average revenue from fuel. At that point, electric cars pay just a high car tax and fossil fuel cars pay both the…

VED (Vehicle Exercise Duty), as it is currently known, is now based on emissions. It would be a hard sell to undo that, and base it on something else (like vehicle weight/size/etc). The most acceptable way to tax EVs at this point is probably taxing at the charging point.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#97

Oh dear. Somebody didn't pass the geometric sequence question on their GSCE maths paper. The £35B revenue replaces itself, because money doesn't stop at its first use. What you don't spend on fuel duty, you spend on something else, which is subject to VAT, causes wages to be paid subject to PAYE, and profits to be earned subject to corporation tax. They then spend their increased income cause more tax to be raised an…

>>firstly because you can't rely on it and secondly because a sovereign government has no need of revenue in the first place. That's not the purpose of taxes!

Soo much wrong here...

Revenue should be the ONLY purpose of taxation, and falsehood that sovereign government steams from a combination of fiat currency and MMT, which when combined and executed on like you are implying lead to inflation can currency collapse (in the extreme)

governments SHOULD NOT use taxation to pick winners and losers, nor to legislate morality, they should use taxation ONLY to collect revenue to projects and programs approved by the people, and for no other purpose

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#98

There is no "road tax" in the UK, is it? It's a fee for polluting, not using the road. I hate that it's being used as an argument against cyclists: "get off the road, you don't pay road tax". This of course also ignores that most adult cyclists also own a car.. Norway have the same issues now. Almost all new cars are electric. You don't pay purchase tax / vat when buying it. Pay less on toll roads. Cheaper to use. Et…

The “pollute more from the tires being heavier” is a myth, by the way. There was an article that circulated claiming this, but they never actually measured the tire pollution of electric cars, just extrapolated from ICE cars with really terrible and ultimately false arguments. Electric cars tend to use low rolling resistance tires (potentially less wear… if you’re experiencing less rolling resistance, that means less energy ends up being used to produce wear, so less wear occurs… in part due to geometric effects and partly due to composition of the tires). Electric cars are also fairly comparable in curb weight due to massive weight reductions elsewhere, plus improved traction control (and the more gentle regenerative braking) means less wheel slippage and wear. And it assumes ICE cars are operating at full emissions-control mode which is also untrue especially on startup or in cold weather or if using diesel. It also assumes tire wear mass is all minute particles of the same problematic effects of ICE exhaust particles, which is a bad assumption for multiple reasons (for one, it ignores empirical measurements of particle sizes), and it ignores gaseous emissions entirely in the calculation, many of which are very problematic like carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides of various types, components of gasoline such as benzene and xylene and toluene, ozone (a major component of smog), etc. It also ignores the near absence of break wear in electric cars, thus the absence of silica dust (or iron oxide dust, or whatever the brakes and the rotors are made of, etc).

In short, it is misinformation.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#99

A road or car tax doesn’t have to go away just because the car is electric no? Am I missing something? As for the fuel tax, why not make up for it with an increase in car tax once sufficient adoption is reached? Once 80% of cars are electric, the car tax increases by an amount required to make up for the average revenue from fuel. At that point, electric cars pay just a high car tax and fossil fuel cars pay both the…

VED (Vehicle Exercise Duty), as it is currently known, is now based on emissions. It would be a hard sell to undo that, and base it on something else (like vehicle weight/size/etc). The most acceptable way to tax EVs at this point is probably taxing at the charging point.

Add an additional VED component for road damage, which is vehicle miles times the fourth power of axle load.

Re: Electric Cars – fuel duty and road tax: how to replace £35B annual revenue

#100

Oh dear. Somebody didn't pass the geometric sequence question on their GSCE maths paper. The £35B revenue replaces itself, because money doesn't stop at its first use. What you don't spend on fuel duty, you spend on something else, which is subject to VAT, causes wages to be paid subject to PAYE, and profits to be earned subject to corporation tax. They then spend their increased income cause more tax to be raised an…

>>firstly because you can't rely on it and secondly because a sovereign government has no need of revenue in the first place. That's not the purpose of taxes! Soo much wrong here... Revenue should be the ONLY purpose of taxation, and falsehood that sovereign government steams from a combination of fiat currency and MMT, which when combined and executed on like you are implying lead to inflation can currency collapse…

Taxing activities that have negative externalities is a positive use of taxation.

It's better than forbidding such behavior for many reasons. The simplest reason is that it's better to make revenue dis-incentivizing something bad (pollution) as opposed to dis-incentivizing something good (income).

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