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Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

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Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#91

Post by larusso »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #37
nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

Have you seen any impact of the Euro's drop against the dollar in your day to day life? Say, things from American companies getting substantially more expensive, or salaries rising to keep pace with American counterparts?

I’m also from Germany so I feel I can answer. 1) No not yet anyways. The inflation is only really visible in gas/energy prices and groceries. I know that some EV car manufacturers had to increase prices but that has a different reason.

2) The german tech sector never tried to compete with US salaries. I for one have quite the income (base+bonus+other monetary benefits) but am way behind a Silicon Valley counterpart. And I mean with cost of living etc included.

My company is constantly adjusted the salaries. But we still base it on market conditions in Europe not world wide. And they don’t want to react to inflation so fast.

But that is only my experience. Major city in Germany btw.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#92

Post by leereeves »

akmarinov wrote: post #59
jonathan-adly wrote: post #25

There are solutions, just unpopular and require a political class that is not fickle and weak. Solution #1. Capitulate to Putin and treat Russia as a regional power that can gobble and punish its neighbors when they stray too far. Solution #2. Forget about the climate for the next 5 years, turn on all coal, nuclear powerplants. Solution #3. Put the Euro printer in overdrive and pay whatever price needed for the littl…

Solution #1 - we already tried that, we gave Putin Crimea in 2014, everything was chill for 7-8 years and now we have this mess. If we give him Donetsk and Luhansk, he'll just be back for more + Moldova in 5-6 years.

In 5-6 years, Europe should be able to free themselves of Russian energy and build a military capable of standing up to Russia. (Ukraine is almost managing the latter on their own.)

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#93

Post by Comevius »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6
88840-8855 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no lng supply possible for Europe. you can frack as much as you want and ship as much as you want. the next 4 quarters will decide about the downfall of Europe (and ultimately the US).

"Constraint is a forcing function for ingenuity." Renewables are going to ramp, floating LNG import terminals are already en route (to add capacity to the existing 24 in EU countries), and industrial processes requiring LNG will make due with less or seek alternatives. Europe will place a small number of coal plants on temporary standby, and they will only add 1.3% to EU emissions annually, even in the worst-case sce…

If it would be the 19th century wood and coal would solve the problem, but unfortunately nothing can replace the existing natural gas infrastructure. Winter is a few months away.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#94

Post by theplumber »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #37
nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

Have you seen any impact of the Euro's drop against the dollar in your day to day life? Say, things from American companies getting substantially more expensive, or salaries rising to keep pace with American counterparts?

Everything gets more expensive(i.e restaurant bill, dentistey bill). I don't think it's due EUR/USD rate. It's oil & gas.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#95

Post by jonathan-adly »

akmarinov wrote: post #59
jonathan-adly wrote: post #25

There are solutions, just unpopular and require a political class that is not fickle and weak. Solution #1. Capitulate to Putin and treat Russia as a regional power that can gobble and punish its neighbors when they stray too far. Solution #2. Forget about the climate for the next 5 years, turn on all coal, nuclear powerplants. Solution #3. Put the Euro printer in overdrive and pay whatever price needed for the littl…

Solution #1 - we already tried that, we gave Putin Crimea in 2014, everything was chill for 7-8 years and now we have this mess. If we give him Donetsk and Luhansk, he'll just be back for more + Moldova in 5-6 years.

Yea, Crimea would have been the perfect time to realize that depending on a rational, happy Russia for gas is a bad idea.

Don't worry though, America is repeating the same mistakes with China. So, its not just Europe.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#96

Post by prostoalex »

Spooky23 wrote: post #20

The whole Ukraine/Russia conflict underscores how poor the strategic position of Europe and the US is with respect to Europe. We’ve been phoning it in since the Clinton era and assuming that “norms” and oligarchs would keep Russia at bay. End of the day they got tanks, nukes and are learning what they can get away with.

If only somebody foresaw this

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-eu-summit-idUSBREA2P0...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/trump-scolded-germany-for...

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#97

Post by bamboozled »

credit_guy wrote: post #73
ibeckermayer wrote: post #42

Related content "Trump: Germany 'Totally Controlled By Russia'" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LLZBVTid4I German bureaucrats laugh at Trump after he says the country could become totally dependent on Russian energy: https://twitter.com/marcusgilmer/status/1044604107997237249

I generally despise Trump, but here he looks like a visionary and the German diplomats look like morons (in hindsight, at least).

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day :)

Have to hand it to him this time...he was so right.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#98

Post by oxff »

polotics wrote: post #21
oxff wrote: post #9

Glad to let moralistic foreign policy drive the entire trade block down the shitter (it is moralistic FP because EU did not nut up and actually deploy to protect the so-precious-Ukraine, but instead threw its own economy and living standards into chaos just so they wouldn't be mistaken to be pro-Putler). In short, insanity.

moralistic foreign policy as in not paying a country that sent its goons rape children? also putin said, lavrov said: we won't invade...

It is moralistic because moral hysteria ("goons raping children") is driving the fate of the entire trade block right now, your post was a perfect example.

Poor, lights out EU with 10-20% inflation will not in fact be a 'strong against Russia' or whatever (and this is without EU being in a war of any kind, lmao)

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#99

Post by etempleton »

The EU and the US need to have been building new nuclear power plants yesterday. Not everywhere in the world is ideal for nuclear due to the potential for significant natural disaster, but much of Western Europe and the United States are perfectly safe with the latest nuclear reactor designs.This was known before the current energy crisis and there has been complete inaction for decades.

Coupled with solar, wind and existing hydro, it is our best path forward for sustainable future in the mid term. It is not just about being "green" or saving the planet from global warming. It is about energy independence.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#100

Post by fsh »

lolinder wrote: post #78
fsh wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is currently almost no gas used for electricity generation in Europe (much too expensive). Even under normal conditions, heating and industry consume an order of magnitude more gas than electricity generation.

EDIT: This is wrong, as the commenter notes below, this is energy , not electricity . Citation? The number that I consistently see cited is 1/4 of all electricity in EU comes from Natural Gas [0]. [0] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/infographs/energy/bloc-2...

You are citing historical numbers for primary energy (mostly transportation and heating), not for electricity.

ElectricityMaps has some live data for electricity generation: https://app.electricitymaps.com

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