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Launch HN: Hello (YC S22) – A search engine for developers

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Re: Launch HN: Hello (YC S22) – A search engine for developers

#91

Post by rushingcreek »

joshstrange wrote: post #86
visarga wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the forest for the trees... it is a Q&A system not just a search engine. You can talk to it, you can refine your queries. To the SayHello team: kudos for being faster than Google to release a Q&A+search system. I was expecting something like this for a couple of years wondering why Google was sleeping on its mountain of papers and not doing it. Search was the first step in finding information, Q&A…

> I think you missed the forest for the trees... it is a Q&A system not just a search engine. You can talk to it, you can refine your queries. From the creators: > We're building a better search engine for software developers. Also no you can't "talk to it", I'm not sure where you got that idea. It has a "Ask a follow up" but that performs a new search with none of the context of your previous search (also this UI of…

Could you post which examples you tried? It's not perfect, but the "Ask a followup" feature is usually smart enough to use existing context to refine.

Re: Launch HN: Hello (YC S22) – A search engine for developers

#92

Post by visarga »

wayy wrote: post #88
joshstrange wrote: post #58

First Impressions: * I won't use a different search engine for programmers stuff vs everything else. So while this might be targeted toward software developers I can't see myself using it unless it can handle normal searches. * UI/UX - I hate the progress bar, I'm not sure at all what it's telling me as there are results shown while it's still completing. The results are way too spaced out. On my 27" 2K screen I can…

To comment on the dynamic DOM - we're displaying up to three answer types (text, code, links) for each question. We're loading them independently to get information to the user as fast as possible. The alternative (in this state) is to have all of them wait until the slowest component finishes. We're still in the early stages of development, so either way it's not going to be perfect. I can see how this can be a poor…

Maybe not everyone understands that the Q&A responses have to go through a large language model before they are displayed. This takes time, showing something while the LM is churning away is a good idea.

Re: Launch HN: Hello (YC S22) – A search engine for developers

#93

Post by skrtskrt »

> we’re planning to charge teams per user/month to use on internal data scattered around in wikis, documentation, slack, and emails.

Do you have any idea of how you're going to go the "enterprise integration" route without hiring an army of implementation consultants?

best of luck, I'm sure there are many teams on Confluence that wish they had a functioning search without moving everything off Confluence at once

Re: Launch HN: Hello (YC S22) – A search engine for developers

#95

Post by rushingcreek »

mbreese wrote: post #68
danenania wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your first comment, you say you want high information density. In this one, you say if there are irrelevant results on Google, you'll just ignore them and scroll past. I get that there's always a high bar to switch to a new tool, and Google obviously has certain advantages that are tough to replicate, but it seems like you're applying a bit of a double standard. If Google shows me a bunch of ads and irrelevant res…

With one dominant search provider, we are constantly conditioned to parse the results from Google. It is very easy to ignore certain parts of the page and mentally process which parts of the page your brain is interested in. So, while it’s not necessarily “information dense”, finding the information you need is comparatively “cognitively light”. Or at least predictable… The devil you know…

You're right -- we are all conditioned by Google. Yet, using Hello for my own technical searches these past few weeks, higher signal and lower noise is much better for me personally. At the end of the day, Justin and I are making the search engine that we want to use ourselves as developers.

Re: Launch HN: Hello (YC S22) – A search engine for developers

#96

Post by visarga »

discreteevent wrote: post #79
joshstrange wrote: post #58

First Impressions: * I won't use a different search engine for programmers stuff vs everything else. So while this might be targeted toward software developers I can't see myself using it unless it can handle normal searches. * UI/UX - I hate the progress bar, I'm not sure at all what it's telling me as there are results shown while it's still completing. The results are way too spaced out. On my 27" 2K screen I can…

Lowest common denominator and "one click" is killing the internet for me. A lot of times I am the lowest common denominator and so that's fine. But when I am a specialist I want something that lets me be specific and gives me specific results.

How much more specific do you need than having the ability to refine your question iteratively? I think regular search engine only allow for a few special keywords. Here you can use natural language to refine.

Re: Launch HN: Hello (YC S22) – A search engine for developers

#97

Post by ezekiel11 »

wayy wrote: post #30
ezekiel11 wrote: post #22

still not as good as stackoverflow

We’re still very early - of course it can't be as good. Could you tell me what you were trying to do and how it didn't work for you?

it just won't be as good as the refinement in searches i can do with appending stackoverflow at the end of a google query and github copilot already does what you are trying to do

Re: Launch HN: Hello (YC S22) – A search engine for developers

#98

Post by joshstrange »

rushingcreek wrote: post #83
joshstrange wrote: post #58

First Impressions: * I won't use a different search engine for programmers stuff vs everything else. So while this might be targeted toward software developers I can't see myself using it unless it can handle normal searches. * UI/UX - I hate the progress bar, I'm not sure at all what it's telling me as there are results shown while it's still completing. The results are way too spaced out. On my 27" 2K screen I can…

Thanks for the feedback. We agree that speed is incredibly important, and we're working on making searches much faster. We'll be iterating on the UI/UX as well, as we think that we can definitely do better and be more efficient with space. I'd love to hear more about what you mean by "informationally dense" -- some search engines simply show more information on the results page, but that doesn't make results inherent…

Consistent, non-moving (as things load) UI is super important. Also something that bugged me but I didn't realize why until now: don't use the full width for the description under links (or the titles for that matter). We've known for some time now that if you make text too wide it becomes harder to read.

My suggestions:

* Kill the padding/margins, it's pretty for demos or certain cases but I want to be able to see more information, heavy padding/margins have no place in search results.

* Shrink the search bar to the upper left like every other search engine. Keeping it centered with tons of padding wastes space. Take your logo and put it to the left of the search field, take the buttons and put them to the right. On my screen you are burning a little over 500px of vertical space with things that don't matter, the results matter.

* Shrink your "regular" search results to be half the width of the screen (on desktop, something like a max of 700, Google uses ~640 as does Ecosia). Use the space to the right to show your AI/ML results. This means no content will jump around and people can more easily read the results, full-width is very hard to read. Also shorten the "description" under the links. 2 lines max (at 640px width).

* Either don't ask "Was this answer helpful?" (use hints like: Did they click the link? Did they leave the site after seeing the results?) OR don't make it move the content (hold the space empty if you must animate it in, just don't let the content shift multiple times after doing a search).

Here is your default result for "this is a test" search query: https://cs.joshstrange.com/oKbz6G

Here it is with a bunch of padding/margins removed: https://cs.joshstrange.com/VEVXGh

Yes, I removed the logo/buttons because that was faster than moving them to the left/right of the search but the end result is the same. In my tightened up version you can fit 8+ result links where the initial version could only show 3, also all the results are easier to read.

Re: Launch HN: Hello (YC S22) – A search engine for developers

#99

Post by wayy »

visarga wrote: post #92
wayy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To comment on the dynamic DOM - we're displaying up to three answer types (text, code, links) for each question. We're loading them independently to get information to the user as fast as possible. The alternative (in this state) is to have all of them wait until the slowest component finishes. We're still in the early stages of development, so either way it's not going to be perfect. I can see how this can be a poor…

Maybe not everyone understands that the Q&A responses have to go through a large language model before they are displayed. This takes time, showing something while the LM is churning away is a good idea.

Yep, the current loading bar attempts to do that (replaced by the slowest generated answer when available). Definitely looking into new ways to improve speed + loading experience if necessary.

Re: Launch HN: Hello (YC S22) – A search engine for developers

#100

Post by ziddoap »

Maybe someone from the team can help me with a question regarding the privacy page/policy.

>The searches we anonymously log be used to improve our product.

>Your data will not be shared with any third party unless we are required to respond to subpoenas, court orders, or legal process, to establish or exercise our legal rights or defend against legal claims.

>We will never sell your data to any third party.

The first sentence is at odds with the second two.

If you say you are only collecting query and query response data, but then assure me you aren't selling my data, I can't help but wonder which is true:

1) The site is actually collecting data, but is not selling it. 2) The site is not collecting data, and the privacy page is outdated/incorrect/inaccurate.

The same question obviously applies to court orders and the like. Which is it? Do you store data that would be material to me if the site was presented by court order, and that is why you have given me a disclaimer? Or do you not store data, and so the disclaimer is meaningless?

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