The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case • Hacker News Board

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#91

Post by mbreese » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 7:52 AM UTC

thinkcomp wrote: post #77

mbreese wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seriously still beating this horse? Why couldn't they partner with another institution that already has the appropriate licensing? Or, alternatively, they seem well enough funded to be able to post the appropriate bonds. I get your position, but with the constant whining, you're not winning over people.

First, I'm not trying to win you over. I'm trying to get a license, as is my right. Second, a lot of people consider the particular fight I've chosen to pick fairly important, as it would do a lot to corrode the monopoly that banks hold on payment processing. So one person's whining is apparently another's heroic battle (not my words). Third, the issue of money transmission licenses is also directly relevant to this…

I get it, I really do. I also think that freeing up the financial industry is needed. I'm not convinced that your way is the right one, but I'm not opposed.

But I'm worried that you are starting to get into RMS territory... that most of what I read from you here is on this one issue, from a very distinct viewpoint. I'm not saying you're wrong (or that RMS is), just that such a myopic view isn't always the best way to win people over to your viewpoint. Even worse, you risk people tuning you out.

Maybe I'm just getting a sample bias because your most recent posts and comments have been on transmission licenses.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#92

Post by hsshah » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 8:28 AM UTC

Card case is elegant and innovative. As a user, I love it. However, calling this a harbinger of end of credit cards is jumping the gun. If that would have been easy, PayPal would have already ended credit cards (for online purchases). I see no signs of that.

A completely different set of competency and technology will be required to replace the credit cards with their own payment solution (credit risk assessment, fraud prevention etc). Their impressive track record so far means they can certainly develop these; but it won't be that quick or easy.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#93

Post by Saavedro » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 8:31 AM UTC

maximusprime wrote: post #89

patio11 wrote: post #3

That is what disruptive innovation looks like. "Oh look, a multi-billion dollar problem people were trying to solve by getting two sides of the market to simultaneously ubiquitously install new hardware. How about we solve it with stuff they already own plus new software instead?"

Because it's stupidly insecure, unregulated, won't reach mass adoption etc?

Adoption I can see being an obstacle. But I don't see this being particularly insecure.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#94

Post by refulgentis » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 8:45 AM UTC

I am the cofounder of a startup that builds an iOS/iPod/iPad POS Ambur, and it's absolutely astonishing to me to see people claim Square is doing anything useful for merchants.

Their software is far too simplistic for anyone running more than a very basic coffee shop with tech savvy customers to use. Even something as simple as most customers demand paper receipts, and Square's functionality is taking basic orders, one a time, with no conception of any business analysis functions. That does not cut it for any business bigger than a small coffee or retail shop, where customers pay and are served instantaneously. no matter how cheap Square is, or how many brilliant designers they hire, they're not going to get into businesses bigger than this without expanding what they're doing.

They really, really, need to launch a platform for people like us to innovate on. We're young, forward-thinking, and as an ex-restaurant employee I know how much CC companies and traditional POS companies screw businesses.

We're trying to change that on the POS side, and I desperately wish Square would be less egotistical and let us use them to change the payment side. It would be tremendous for them, because it lets POS companies solve adoption for them, instead of them trying to engineer 1000 solutions for 1000 different types of business, and let's them focus on their core compotency - beautifully designed software for consumers.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#95

Post by refulgentis » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 8:45 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #3

That is what disruptive innovation looks like. "Oh look, a multi-billion dollar problem people were trying to solve by getting two sides of the market to simultaneously ubiquitously install new hardware. How about we solve it with stuff they already own plus new software instead?"

I am the cofounder of a startup that builds an iOS/iPod/iPad POS Ambur, and it's absolutely astonishing to me to see people claim Square is doing anything useful for merchants.

Their software is far too simplistic for anyone running more than a very basic coffee shop with tech savvy customers to use. Even something as simple as most customers demand receipts, and Square's functionality beyond taking basic coffee orders is non-existent. That does not cut it for businesses, no matter how cheap Square is.

They really, really, need to launch a platform for people like us to innovate on. We're young, forward-thinking, and as an ex-restaurant employee I know how much CC companies and traditional POS companies screw businesses.

We're trying to change that on the POS side, and I desperately wish Square would be less egotistical and let us change the payment side. It would be tremendous for them, because it lets POS companies solve adoption for them, instead of them trying to engineer 1000 solutions for 1000 different types of business, and let's them focus on their core compotency - beautifully designed software for consumers.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#96

Post by refulgentis » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 8:50 AM UTC

Cherian_Abraham wrote: post #24

I love Square, and they are a classic disruptor. They started slow, at the low end, and created their own blue ocean before starting to chew at the heels of the entrenched incumbents in the payment ecosystem. That being said, the payment ecosystem is a pretty messed up place, even though the ugliness is all pretty much abstracted from the customer. The interchange fees charged to the merchants at times rival their ma…

As a founder of new POS system company (Ambur iPad POS), I just don't see this as true. Most of the bigger POS companies might have reasons to maintain the status quo, but mobile touch devices are literally revolutionizing the industry, because it means there's opportunity for small players to build systems on commodity touch hardware, designing software that's actually easy to use and reasonably priced.

Square needs to allow other POS vendors to use their APIs to truly conquer this space. Their system is currently woefully inadequate for anyone except small businesses with literally no need to do anything except charge a customer right away, without any paper receipts. That limits their business market to essentially small coffee shop or retail vendors with technologically advanced customers. That's a...small market, to be polite.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#97

Post by _urga » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 8:54 AM UTC

Saavedro wrote: post #93

maximusprime wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's stupidly insecure, unregulated, won't reach mass adoption etc?

Adoption I can see being an obstacle. But I don't see this being particularly insecure.

If the product is right, if it serves people well, adoption will be limited only to that which Square can support.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#98

Post by huhtenberg » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 8:56 AM UTC

refulgentis wrote: post #94

I am the cofounder of a startup that builds an iOS/iPod/iPad POS Ambur, and it's absolutely astonishing to me to see people claim Square is doing anything useful for merchants. Their software is far too simplistic for anyone running more than a very basic coffee shop with tech savvy customers to use. Even something as simple as most customers demand paper receipts, and Square's functionality is taking basic orders, o…

Wouldn't adding a "Print receipt" button on a merchant's device solve the "cusomters demand receipts" concern?

And they are building a platform. They will likely to open it up sooner rather than later too, they just can't take on CC companies alone.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#99

Post by jerfelix » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 9:03 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #29

Adolph_Jobs wrote: post #27

This is amazing in terms of ease-of-use. However, the privacy implications are a bit worrying... I don't really want to rubbish this, I hate the naysayers when something disruptive comes around (note that Japan rolled out pay-by-cellphone on their subway systems something like 10 years ago) but... "She saw my name and photo on her iPad, tapped it, and I was done. A receipt was sent to my phone." So all employees at s…

the privacy issues are negated by it being totally opt in. the other examples in your post are silent, unauthorized tracking. obviously there are privacy concerns with a system like this, but if that is something that worries you, you can control it.

I still would like to be able to buy coffee without having to announce my real name out loud to everyone around me.

Cash provides me that privacy. Heck, credit cards even keep the transaction between me and the merchant.

Re: The End of the Credit Card? New Square app: Card Case

#100

Post by jerfelix » Thu, Nov 03, 2011, 9:13 AM UTC

Almost 100 comments, and no one mentions Bitcoin. I'm surprised.

Seems to me this same app could be built for Bitcoin, and you could eliminate or reduce the 2.75% service fee. Or you could make it 1% and give it back to the purchaser in the form of points (like credit cards).

Bitcoins could be instantly converted to cash, for a fraction of that fee (about 0.6% using a Bitcoin exchange).