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Why does science news suck so much?

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Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#91
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's that all news is that bad. I don't think so. Weather news are alright, traffic news are alright, etc. There are fields that suck harder and there are fields that just work okay, maybe because they are simple enough, maybe because you can learn them once and apply what you have learned forever. But science is different for sure and the journalism on it sucks because getting to the point where you even understan…

> But science is different for sure and the journalism on it sucks because getting to the point where you even understand the problem might require years of preparation. This is not at all unique to science; people tend to assume this about their own fields, not realising that it actually applies to most of them.

"Terrible" reportage can indeed mean getting quotes wrong and basic established facts incorrect.

But it also covers simplifying things for a (somewhat educated) lay audience, making decisions about what to include and exclude, and including perspectives that some experts may take issue with.

Certainly, it would be nice if many journalists had a better background in what they're writing about. But it's also a case that experts can have unreasonable expectations about the depth and nuance of something written for the more or less general public.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#92
post #15

It's not that science (or tech) news is bad, it's that all news is that bad. We just don't notice it outside our area of expertise. The next time you're reading an article about some field you're not an expert in, try to remember that it is just as bad as the news in your area of expertise.

> it's that all news is that bad. I don't think so. Weather news are alright, traffic news are alright, etc. There are fields that suck harder and there are fields that just work okay, maybe because they are simple enough, maybe because you can learn them once and apply what you have learned forever. But science is different for sure and the journalism on it sucks because getting to the point where you even understan…

>Weather news are alright, traffic news are alright

I'd venture to say weather news is also alarmist and therefore bad, particularly during severe weather events and hyping up hurricane news.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#93
Nothing new here, this has been a steadily increasingly problem: media outlets generally don't hire people with even a basic scientific eduction to do science journalism. A lot of this has to do with the 'expert propaganda' phenomenon - corporations and government have a list of so-called experts that they want the journalists to act as stenographers for, and the media corporations oblige by hiring ignorant journalists who will just repeat whatever they're told. This suits the interests of pharmaceutical corporations ('buy our wonderful new Vioxx drug! don't ask us about flaws in clinical trial design!), financial fraudsters ('our expert economists say get an adjustable rate loan! it's the way of the future!), and similar types.

Here's a similar discussion from a decade ago, a rather defensive piece from a journalist:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2011/08/08/why-sci...

Corporate media is, more often than not, just a mouthpiece for state and corporate propaganda, and the types of journalists who succeed in that environment are just pliable weathervanes who do what their editors tell them to do, and the editors do what the owners tell them to do, and hey, meet the Washington Post owned by Jeff Bezos whose AWS got a $600 million CIA contract for web services, so no more investigative journalism like Top Secret America, please!

As far as the main points Hossenfelder raises, i.e. basic concepts like original sources, range of uncertainties, margins of error, unquestioning reliance on press releases, alternative hypothesis, understanding of how mathematical models of physical phenomena are tested against observational data - well, that might force the public to think about what they're reading. That's not the job of the corporate media, they're not there to encourage critical thinking - they're there to take complex topics, simplify them to the point where a small child could understand them, and then repeat, repeat, repeat. That's the essence of propaganda tactics.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#96
I think part of the reason is because there’s a disconnect between science and the rest of society. Science doesn’t work in 2 week sprints or fiscal quarters or election cycles. It’s not something that can be scheduled or forecasted. It’s slow and error-prone and there may just not be anything newsworthy for several years at a time.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#97

Nothing new here, this has been a steadily increasingly problem: media outlets generally don't hire people with even a basic scientific eduction to do science journalism. A lot of this has to do with the 'expert propaganda' phenomenon - corporations and government have a list of so-called experts that they want the journalists to act as stenographers for, and the media corporations oblige by hiring ignorant journalis…

Are you implying that, historically, journalists either 1) had some basic education in what they are reporting about, or 2) actually wanted to educate themselves in what they are reporting about, and that today, increasingly, journalists don't or don't want to do either 1) or 2)?

That is, at it's core, saying that journalists are, on average, getting more and more stupid.

This seems a bit strange and unsubstantiated, but could very well be true. What would cause a gradual decrease in the intelligence of humanity's journalists?

Or are things like science just getting more complex (more specialized) that an average journalists requires "too much" time to educate themselves about. That would then mean they aren't getting less intelligent, per se...

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#98
*edit:* Recalled the quote, thanks raphlinus

This reminds me of the "Gell-mann amnesia effect":

http://www.sfu.ca/~easton/Econ220W/WhySpeculate.pdf

   Media carries with it a credibility that is totally undeserved.
   You have all experienced this, in what I call the Murray Gell-Mann
   Amnesia effect. (I refer to it by this name because I once
   discussed it with Murray Gell-Mann, and by dropping a famous
   name I imply greater importance to myself, and to the effect,
   than it would otherwise have.)

   Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You
   open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well.
   In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the
   article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding
   of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong
   it actually presents the story backward -- reversing cause and
   effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's
   full of them.

   In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple
   errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or
   international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper
   was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you
   just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#100

The irony here is that Sabine Hossenfelder falls into exactly the same patterns as the science media that she is criticizing. A punchy headline, with significant oversimplifications. For example, she makes it sound like science news is always aimed at scientists, and that they do not explain the science (I have several excellent counter examples). That doesn't mean there is not some very good points in there (e.g. pu…

> The other irony is that likely she does it for exactly the same reasons as why science media is often bad: economics. Can we all stop blaming 'economics'. Economics says people are largely self-interested, selfish and maximize their own utility (happiness-whatever). It's not 'economics', it's people. Labor unions are also maximizing their revenue.

> Economics says

You mean, "many Economists with a simplistic, reductionist view of human societies' behavior say".

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