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Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

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Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#91

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

causality0 wrote: post #10

Results this are why I vigorously defend even the outer fringes of free speech. "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

"Hard problems" in the social realm are nearly always the result of two independent entities, where each entity should be entitled to their full rights, but those rights are in conflict. Think the abortion debate (right of a woman's bodily autonomy vs. right of the fetus/child), gun debate (right to bear arms vs right to not get shot in school or the grocery store), transgender people in sports debate (right of individuals to compete in sports vs. right of other competitors to have a fair playing field).

Thus, when it comes to free speech, while I used to be more of a "free speech absolutist", I think the past 10-20 years have shown real dangers of unlimited free speech, especially that enabled by technology and anonymity. I'm not necessarily arguing one way or the other on any particular case, only emphasizing that I don't think an "absolutist" position makes sense - there have always been limits on free speech, even in the US. It's a hard problem precisely because words can have such serious consequences. I mean, look at the mobs that were whipped up against the Rohingya in Myanmar. Where do you draw the line there on free speech and inciting murder?

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#92

Post by micromacrofoot »

999900000999 wrote: post #46

This would suggest the only winning move is not to play. Aside from this, I haven't used Social Media/ Online Dating in about 5 years. For example, if someone posts something like "Where can I find an apartment in LA , my income is only 35k a year". And I respond with " Your not going to make it here, you should move somewhere cheaper." That can be interupted as an insult. On the other end of the spectrum, back when…

I guess the devil is in the details, but on a cursory glance this sounds more akin to American libel laws than "no insults ever"

> Insult charges apply when an individual insults another in public to damage their social reputation.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#93

Post by InefficientRed »

yuuu wrote: post #31
bobthe3 wrote: post #8

Personally I feel this is law is a great step forward to stop hate speech and other forms of severe harassment but the thought that if you happen to “rage” on someone mid game and receive jail time for that scares me. Society is becoming more and more closed off in a way where rather then freedom of expression you have to limit ur speech to not offend another.

You think it's a great step forward, but you're scared of it and feel that society is becoming more closed off because of a lack of freedom of expression. How does this make any sense?

Certain pockets of the gaming community are crime-adjacent with respect to online harassment (not the type this law describes; actual, clearly illegal and clearly not constitutionally protected harassment).

You see similar things in other crime-adjacent communities. E.g., I've known many taggers who support stiffer penalties for people who tag in national parks, deface uncontroversial monuments, etc but are afraid that those stiffer penalties might result in a crackdown on their own plainly criminal art installations.

Similar with petty theft. Lots of people will say stuff like "I love boosters they are taking care of the common man" while simultaneously going into fits of rage when their own property is stolen.

"I spend enough time around people who commit this crime that I can see how much damage this type of behavior can cause, but I also think my particular flavor of it is harmless."

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#94

Post by [deleted] »

999900000999 wrote: post #46

This would suggest the only winning move is not to play. Aside from this, I haven't used Social Media/ Online Dating in about 5 years. For example, if someone posts something like "Where can I find an apartment in LA , my income is only 35k a year". And I respond with " Your not going to make it here, you should move somewhere cheaper." That can be interupted as an insult. On the other end of the spectrum, back when…

[deleted]

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#95

Post by shadowgovt »

causality0 wrote: post #10

Results this are why I vigorously defend even the outer fringes of free speech. "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

In context, this speech is given on the subject of trampling the civil rights of an individual suspected of a crime.

That has nothing to do with criminalizing certain behavior, especially behaviors with evidence linking them to increased suicides among young people. And the risk of witch-hunts is much rarer in this context, where the possibly illegal behavior is often auto-transcribed due to the text or audiovisual media that was used to transmit it.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#96

Post by Karawebnetwork »

akomtu wrote: post #2

How are they going to verify identity of the supposed "cyberbully"? Judge: "Here is a screenshot of an internet page where you use offensive language." Defendant: "But your honor, here is a screenshot with your name on it where you call this process fabricated."

Bullying is not about insulting someone in passing. It is something that happens over a period of time.

Australia's NCAB defines it as such:

"Bullying is an ongoing and deliberate misuse of power in relationships through repeated verbal, physical and/or social behaviour that intends to cause physical, social and/or psychological harm. It can involve an individual or a group misusing their power, or perceived power, over one or more persons who feel unable to stop it from happening."

It would be quite a lot of effort to falsify this, especially since most judges around the world can request the original copies of messages from websites or even get access to the devices of the concerned parties. Japan's defamation and libel laws are already very strict.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#97

Post by boredumb »

san_dimitri wrote: post #55

I am surprised how much less discussion takes place about cyberbullying and the deaths caused by it. I agree with freedom of speech but if it violates someones right to exist then shouldn't the culprits be punished? If not punished atleast have a legal process to discuss/debate it in the court of law? Thoughts?

Speech is not violence and it is absurd for anyone to imply otherwise.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#98

Post by alephnan »

kwatsonafter wrote: post #3

As I get older I'm more in favor of this kind of thing. Freedom of speech ought (here I go; a terrible Kantian asserting an, "ought") to apply to political speech. Using FoS as a defense against aimlessly attacking others seems to undermine what is a basic expectation of civility (ie. not being made to feel unsafe) in advanced societies. I feel like there's a class of people that would gladly slaughter cows in front…

> Good for Japan. Politeness rules.

It's ironic you mention politeness.

The person who suicided appeared on a reality TV show called Terrace House.

The bullying occurred in response to what Japanese netizens deemed as her behaving impolitely. To Japanese people, the behavior was unacceptable and why the segment went viral. Add in the fact that the person who suicided is a female wrestler which is unorthodox in Japan. The show producers capitalized on this.

The issue is much more deep-seated than toxic internet trolls and bullies. It's the culture of shaming and expectations. That goes for both the people shaming others, as well as those receiving shame. To receive shame from other Japanese people is possibly the worst consequence a Japanese person can face, more so than death. That's one narrative why there are disproportionately less Japanese prisoners-of-wars.

One of the convicted bullies received an $80 fine. So this headline seems somewhat at odds ( the law already exists, just increasing the penalty). You have also have understand Japan is a classist and hierarchical society, and randos on the internet can subvert that power dynamic. The cynic in me thinks the slippery slope here is in regards to who will become the target of "cyberbullying" next? Politicians and the well-connected?

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#99

Post by djkoolaide »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #68
san_dimitri wrote: post #55

I am surprised how much less discussion takes place about cyberbullying and the deaths caused by it. I agree with freedom of speech but if it violates someones right to exist then shouldn't the culprits be punished? If not punished atleast have a legal process to discuss/debate it in the court of law? Thoughts?

People dying is a small price to pay for free speech. Of course, if everyone died and the last person was able to speak freely, it would be worth it. Everything else is trading safety for liberty. Slippery slopes of free speech crackdowns inevitably lead to loss of liberty. Leave if you don't like it. Absolutism in free speech is the only justifiable position. Welcome to debate.

Genuinely can't tell whether this is irony or frightening sincerity.
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