Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 174 posts

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#91

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

tornato7 wrote: post #52
dtgriscom wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are facts about human behavior which can only be learned by actually testing them. People are complex in ways that you, whilst sitting at your keyboard, cannot figure out.

All which can be learned through focus groups and internal feedback, no need to further confuse and frustrate your users.

It’s very common to think something is a good idea based on focus groups and internal feedback and then learn it’s a bad idea from launching it (or running an AB test).

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#92

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

Gigachad wrote: post #86
retox wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This change was when I stopped downloading from the Play store. Prior to that you could easily see that the compass or flashlight app you were going to install needed network access, something that set off alarm bells given the state of malware back then.

It was a bit of a pointless permission because literally every app requested it. The android permissions system very quickly fatigued users in to accepting everything. The new model is much better. Allow the user to actually deny the important permissions but just accept that network access is what apps do now.

I agree this is a better set of defaults, but there should be a toggle in the settings someplace, even deep in the developer mode settings, that gives users control over more granular permissions and allows them to choose which permissions to auto-grant and/or auto-deny.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#93

Post by [deleted] »

anonymousiam wrote: post #88

One of the things I really liked about the Android custom ROMs (Cyanogen, etc.) was that they allowed you to revoke some app permissions, but still run the app. Google will never allow users to choose because it conflicts with their own business (user data collection and targeted marketing). Now they aren't even letting you know how much information the app collects until you download and install it.

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#94

Post by kikokikokiko »

dblohm7 wrote: post #38

I still miss the good old days of Android when apps didn't automatically receive the internet permission. Now get off my lawn.

Afwall+ is your friend. No app should ever get internet access unless it's needed for it to work.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#95

Post by daveoc64 »

MBCook wrote: post #29
martin_bech wrote: post #3

Probably because all apps are now required to target the latest api, which means most permissions are done by user prompts, and not just by downloading the app.

The iPhone has worked like that (to various degrees) for a long time. But Apple still added their privacy label things to tell me if an app is going to try to track my location. I don’t want to download a clipboard helper of some kind and find out it’s going to ask for my GPS coordinates. I want to know ahead of time.

Apple's Privacy Labels and Google's equivalent in the Play Store are unrelated to permissions.

An app may have permission to do something (e.g. access your location), but if the app's usage of this feature does not involve your location being sent to the app's server and stored somewhere, it does not need to be disclosed in the privacy labels.

Apple and Google cannot verify what happens with your data when it leaves the device - they rely on the honesty of developers to explain what happens.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#96

Post by lostgame »

simonsarris wrote: post #2

That seems OK since it still asks you as it needs them when running an app, and "prunes" permissions away from apps that you do not use often. Lots of apps only need specific permissions if you use specific parts of the app. And apps are much larger (one app does more things) than they were 5-10 years ago. Eg you can use some apps as a camera, but never as a photo editor, and get use out of it by only giving some spe…

Why is this okay?

I wouldn’t download, e.g.; a video game that would ask for my contacts or location.

Why should I have to download and wait for the app to install before I know what permissions it’s asking for?

Furthermore - what’s the possible purpose of removing this information when it was already there?

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#97

Post by bscphil »

Groxx wrote: post #84

While it is much less of a concern with runtime permissions that are optional.... yeah, I greatly dislike this too. In particular because not everything is a runtime permission . E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet or file permissions at all - it rules out nearly all practical ways to leak your information. And google just keeps taking more and more steps to hide that information from me.

> E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet

As far as I know (please correct if this is wrong), there's no such thing as an app with no Internet permissions. All apps can access the Internet without permission, and only additional uses of the Internet (e.g. seeing your WiFi AP name) require special permission.

AFAIK the "Internet" permission many apps requested was actually for this more advanced usage - just to hit a REST endpoint or something required no permission at all.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#98

Post by daveoc64 »

derevaunseraun wrote: post #65

I see people in the comments trying to justify this change because the apps need to request for permissions, but WHY exactly would google want to get rid of this info? What benefit does it bring to the user, if any? If anything, it harms the user by preventing them from seeing what permissions apps will access in an easy to read format. Why did google even decide to do this in the first place? My best guess is it mak…

I know one long-running complaint about Android's permission system was that when you installed an app you were shown all of the permissions that are declared in the manifest, without any way for the developer to explain why they are used or when they would be applicable.

Permissions like READ_PHONE_STATE make it sound like the app wants to access every phone call you make, when all it really wants to do is pause your music when you answer a phone call.

The combination of runtime permissions for most things, and the de-emphasis of permissions in the Play Store has reduced this as a pain point.

It's also easier to introduce optional features - using things like contacts, location, or Bluetooth if the user wants to give permission at runtime.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#99

Post by mdp2021 »

Gigachad wrote: post #86
retox wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This change was when I stopped downloading from the Play store. Prior to that you could easily see that the compass or flashlight app you were going to install needed network access, something that set off alarm bells given the state of malware back then.

It was a bit of a pointless permission because literally every app requested it. The android permissions system very quickly fatigued users in to accepting everything. The new model is much better. Allow the user to actually deny the important permissions but just accept that network access is what apps do now.

> literally every app requested it

No, not every application requested network access. And surely not a small number of users checked if a calculator or a sound recorder did, and, also checking the developers' justifications for including specific permissions, decided their (dis)trust.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#100

Post by daveoc64 »

bscphil wrote: post #97
Groxx wrote: post #84

While it is much less of a concern with runtime permissions that are optional.... yeah, I greatly dislike this too. In particular because not everything is a runtime permission . E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet or file permissions at all - it rules out nearly all practical ways to leak your information. And google just keeps taking more and more steps to hide that information from me.

> E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet As far as I know (please correct if this is wrong), there's no such thing as an app with no Internet permissions. All apps can access the Internet without permission, and only additional uses of the Internet (e.g. seeing your WiFi AP name) require special permission. AFAIK the "Internet" permission many apps requested was actually for this more advanced usage - just…

The internet permission is separate, and without it an app can't connect to the network:

https://developer.android.com/reference/android/Manifest.per...

It's so commonly requested though, that virtually every app does have it.

Post reply on HN