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Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

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Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#91

Post by hh3k0 »

Animats wrote: post #5

This was taken seriously in 1950s US Civil Defense. Since Europe had already been through that process recently, there was a lot of knowledge available. There's a classic set of books, "Build Your Own Metal Working Shop From Scrap", on this. The kid's version: "A Boy and a Battery" (1942).[1] There's also "A Boy and a Motor", on how to build your own electric train set from old metal cans, some wire, a hammer and tin…

I wonder, aren't virtually all "easily" available resources already dried up to such a degree that highly advanced/specialized equipment would be needed to extract whatever is left?

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#92

Post by datavirtue »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #79
colechristensen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to a Costco business center and buy a bag of rice, a bag of beans, and some bottled water. Buy some camping gear and cook dinner once in a while over a fire in your back yard or a camp ground. Keep a go bag packed that you could pick up and live out of for a week at a moments notice. Take interest in the things around you and learn how to do things yourself instead of paying other people to do them, even if you do…

I'd supplement that with a few bags of charcoal stored in sealed Rubbermaid garbage tubs and some cigarette lighters -- you need a reliable source of fire and wood's a pain in the ass to depend on outdoors. Also rice & beans gets old. Grab 50lbs of canned meat while you're at it. I took a couple cans of Chinese fried rice (yes, it comes in a can!) on a camping trip once: it was everyone's favorite meal.

If you value freedom you are going to have to be able to move fast at a moment's notice. Preppers do nothing but hoard liability. The local gang is going to own your shit.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#93

Post by hutzlibu »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #30
throwaway892238 wrote: post #27

Weird take. Sure, you could try to re-build what you had before the apocalypse. Or you could build a new world that isn't the one that just plunged everything into chaos. If our technology wasn't so good, the world wouldn't be as populated, we wouldn't need so many resources, there wouldn't be so many ways to poison the earth, and the earth would be habitable and sustainable for millennia. After the apocalypse, I wan…

This viewpoint is appealing, but the thing is: natural selection says it isn't possible in the long term. For every person like you, who thinks s/he knows how things would be better for the environment and others, and how to get there (at least approximately), there is another person who doesn't give a shit and who will do long-term damage in exchange for short-term gains all day long. That person will out-compete yo…

" I just don't see a way out of the Malthusian problem (there will be more and more of the sorts of people who breed more, by definition)"

Why is that by definition? Even animals have more or less offspring, depending on the food offering/suitable habitat.

It balances itself out. In nature by starvation. But humans could find other ways. But btw. there are many many people starving and allways have been.

It is not like we are heading to a starvation crisis. We are already in it and always have been. The question is rather, of whether we can stop it one day and have all humans fed and cared for in a sustainable way.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#94

Post by NegativeLatency »

Animats wrote: post #5

This was taken seriously in 1950s US Civil Defense. Since Europe had already been through that process recently, there was a lot of knowledge available. There's a classic set of books, "Build Your Own Metal Working Shop From Scrap", on this. The kid's version: "A Boy and a Battery" (1942).[1] There's also "A Boy and a Motor", on how to build your own electric train set from old metal cans, some wire, a hammer and tin…

"Build Your Own Metal Working Shop From Scrap" I have that on my bookshelf, it's worth a read if you're just curious about how machine tools are made/work.

Might build the shaper out of there someday but currently it seems like it would be a better use of my time to buy an import lathe (assuming no natural disaster)

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#95

Post by xaedes »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #30
throwaway892238 wrote: post #27

Weird take. Sure, you could try to re-build what you had before the apocalypse. Or you could build a new world that isn't the one that just plunged everything into chaos. If our technology wasn't so good, the world wouldn't be as populated, we wouldn't need so many resources, there wouldn't be so many ways to poison the earth, and the earth would be habitable and sustainable for millennia. After the apocalypse, I wan…

This viewpoint is appealing, but the thing is: natural selection says it isn't possible in the long term. For every person like you, who thinks s/he knows how things would be better for the environment and others, and how to get there (at least approximately), there is another person who doesn't give a shit and who will do long-term damage in exchange for short-term gains all day long. That person will out-compete yo…

> We might just have to live with a boom-and-bust cycle on this planet

Reminds me of:

"The fact is, that wherever the extremity of winter frost or of summer sun does not prevent, the human race is always increasing at times, and at other times diminishing in numbers." - from Plato's History on Atlantis

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#96

Post by joe_the_user »

Barrin92 wrote: post #37

I think the more interesting question than how to reinvent some technological gizmos is how to reinstate governance. It's handy to know how to build a solar panel but it isn't worth much if someone hits me on the head with a club five minutes later. It's kind of funny to me that so much post apocalyptic writing is so overly concerned with technology when technology without much wisdom was what likely caused the apoca…

how to reinstate governance

And that's hardly something there's an easy how-to answer to.

A primitive tribe or band tends have each member strongly connected each other member since with few resources, the people are the resources. Modern people don't have to care in the slightest about their neighbors and this is weakness in an emergency situation.

Moreover, a "collapse" situation, in many instances, would imply a general social failure even more complete than recent problems we've seen (consider "I'd rather X many people die than the economy suffer [from Covid or limiting carbon pollution or etc"] a statement about non-community). I don't know how mainstream society would even come back from that. Perhaps the Amish would do well.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#97

Post by bluefirebrand »

hh3k0 wrote: post #91
Animats wrote: post #5

This was taken seriously in 1950s US Civil Defense. Since Europe had already been through that process recently, there was a lot of knowledge available. There's a classic set of books, "Build Your Own Metal Working Shop From Scrap", on this. The kid's version: "A Boy and a Battery" (1942).[1] There's also "A Boy and a Motor", on how to build your own electric train set from old metal cans, some wire, a hammer and tin…

I wonder, aren't virtually all "easily" available resources already dried up to such a degree that highly advanced/specialized equipment would be needed to extract whatever is left?

After an apocalypse, if you survive and society has collapsed, resources will be abundant.

You will just have to strip materials from cars and buildings instead of digging them out of the ground.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#98

Post by bluefirebrand »

Archelaos wrote: post #89
Ishmaeli wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it seems like just knowing some of the dead ends would be a huge step up. Like maybe we don't waste a ton of time and resources trying to turn lead into gold, or teaching left-handed kids to be right-handed, or trying to figure out which ritual to perform to which deity to make the crops grow.

> Also, it seems like just knowing some of the dead ends would be a huge step up. This makes me think, how Knowledge in a post-apocalyptic society would really work. Some fundamental and comparatively easy technologies might not need to be rediscovered (directly jump to iron and omit bronze). But more advanced Knowledge needs a lot of special training, dedicated institutions, etc. And even if they had access to tales…

You wouldn't just have access to the knowledge via tales, but the world around you.

You want to say the earth is flat? Why did the ancients have globes, then?

You want to say man made flight is impossible? Here is an airport with planes. Sure we have never gotten them running but what else could they do except fly?

Granted... Never underestimate the willful ignorance of the masses I suppose.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#99

Post by hansor »

Total apocalipse is not possible (Earth is so large that it's impossible nuke EVERYTHING and EVERYWHERE.

But if this is just experiment "what if" those are thing that I would suggest to do:

- Forget about computers and programming and gadgets

- DO NOT STAY IN BUNKER, INSTEAD FIND FRIENDS!

- Focus on FARMING as team

- Scavending for potatoes, grain etc - for seeds!

- FARMING

- FARMING

- FARMING

- FARMING

- FARMING

- HARVEST

- FOOD = LIFE

What you really need is:

- water (well or river)

- water filter (from sand, rocks, and wood ash) for human consumtion.

- fire (easy - a lot of lighters laying around, if not use your glasses!)

- fuck cars and fuel - you are not going anywhere as you need to do FARMING

- CORN, POTATOES, WHEAT production (parts that we dont eat are perfect food for sheeps or goats!)

- SHEEPS, GOATS production (milk and meat!)

- SHELTER: there must be plenty empty houses in this scenario (everyone died!).

- Do forming for few years. Then you grow and grow. You could sell food in futre and rebuild society, maybe as agroculture baron. :)

OPTIONAL: [you dont need electricity as farmer!]

- electricy from solar panels ("borrow" them) or from wind (you can use any electrical engine for it! For example from washing machine :). This stuff is hard but doable.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#100

Post by renewiltord »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #56
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

e.g. Building a hut, with cross-bracing so the square-lashed frame doesn't collapse in a light breeze. Or hanging the ridgeline of a shed roof from a post so it doesn't push the walls out of line. Or building a truss for a bridge over a creek, instead of a huge arch of stone. Lots of places statics comes in handy. And we take it for granted, that we know this stuff!

Oh, that static analysis. I, um, was thinking of something else with the same name. Yes, knowing how to build things that don't fall down is pretty fundamental.

Little known fact: Rome collapsed because they did not use a language that was amenable to type-checking.
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