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Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

theverge.com

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Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#91

Post by PyWoody »

fipar wrote: post #68
majormunky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2019 Subaru Crosstrek has adaptive cruise control, and i've had it hit the brakes pretty hard when there's nothing in the way. Luckily it doesn't happen often.

I have a 2021 one and it never hit the breaks with nothing standing in the way. I don't have the manual in front of me but IIRC, it should only activate without an actual obstacle if the circumstances are such that something may be confused for an obstacle (e.g., driving down a steep enough hill that the end of it may be detected as a wall, never happened to me but I've never done more than 25 deg slopes). I know you…

I have a 2021 Subaru Legacy and I've never had the phantom breaking as well. I've put about 10k miles on the car with at least 7k of it being on adaptive cruise. All of the miles have been on country roads with hills, sharp turns, traffic, inclement weather, etc.

I second the suggestion to get it checked.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#93

Post by robonerd »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #6
colordrops wrote: post #3

This is probably happening a lot more than the number of reports mentioned in the article indicates. It happens to me every other day in my Model 3. It's also not binary - sometimes it slows down more quickly than other times, or stops too suddenly when a car is stopped in front of you. Seems real easy to get rear-ended. I've only got autopilot, not FSD. It's very conservative. It always considers someone to be in fr…

>Seems real easy to get rear-ended. Which, in this age of cheap ubiquitous dash-cams, isn't nearly as likely to be the "inconvenient waste of time but zero financial risk" deal it used to be Edit: Since apparently this needs explaining, insurers will consider evidence and happily doll out blame to a party that does something dumb in proportion to their fault (with slight variations per differences in law from state t…

> the rules of the road are built around redundant requirements so that crashes don't happen when one party can't or won't hold up their end.

Exactly; this is why brake-checking is illegal. The person behind you has a responsibility to keep a safe distance, but you also have a responsibility to not drive like a lunatic. If the dash-cam footage shows you brake-checking somebody right before the crash, don't expect to get off scot-free by blaming the guy you were fucking with.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#94

Post by misiti3780 »

tristanb wrote: post #56

I have two teslas and this is a non issue. The rare time it's happened it's a slow down, not a jerk. It just seems like FUD

I concur it used to be a problem, but I have driven 4K miles since march and have no had a single phantom break in a vision only car.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#95

Post by LeoPanthera »

I have a "legacy" Model X which still has the radar fitted. For now, autopilot still uses the radar on these models, and I get little or no phantom breaking. Probably only once a month, or less, and I drive on autopilot most days.

I fear the update that disables my radar. (And actually I'm planning to replace the Model X this year for something other than a Tesla, because of the awful service experience.)

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#96

Post by jMyles »

Teever wrote: post #69
mensetmanusman wrote: post #59

They should give drivers a simple way to notify Tesla exactly when phantom breaking happens. E.g. use the mic and when Tesla users say ‘Tesla phantom’ it would send the flagged data to a central repository to train against. Regardless of your feelings towards Tesla, we need someone to figure out safe self driving before the effort is halted and humanity has to wait a century before a new generation tries again (like…

> we need someone to figure out safe self driving before the effort is halted and humanity has to wait a century before a new generation tries again (like with nuclear tech today). That's quite the leap. A far more reasonable statement would be 'we need someone like Ralph Nader to spearhead initiatives to regulate self driving cars to prevent the disasters we saw in automobile safety in the 1950s-1960s.'

No disrespect to Ralph Nader, but cars claim about the same number of lives (more in most years) than they did then. Sure, many _many_ lives are saved by seatbelts, but car-centric inner-cities combined with the psychology of invincibility for the people inside the vehicle are a recipe for dead kids in city blocks, and it's an absolute blood bath out there.

Sure, there are fewer deaths per capita, and fewer deaths per mile traveled, but the chances of a fatality occurring at a given intersection haven't budged except in places where car-centric infra has been removed or scaled back.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#97

Post by TrevorJ »

polytely wrote: post #20
TrevorJ wrote: post #2

How much better than a human driver does a self-driving system need to be before we as a society will accept fully autonomous vehicles? That seems like the key question which we are spending very little effort trying to understand. Until we have a national conversation about this, I suspect self-driving will be an intractable problem.

It also isn't a problem that's binary, I think we could very easily end up in a situation where the AI is a better driver 99% of the time but will occasionally cause an easily preventable accident. Who will be liable once your self-driving car runs over a kid because it mistook them for road markings? I have the feeling that people are going to be more OK with explainable human accidents than unexplainable AI acciden…

I agree with this 100%. To compound this issue is the fact that when I, as a person, make a mistake on the road, the problem space is limited to me.

When a self driving car makes a mistake, every other vehicle on the road running that software/hardware is implicated as well. Imagine having to decide if all humans should have their license suspended until root cause analysis can be completed every single time a human is involved in a car crash. That is the problem we will need to grapple with when it comes to self driving cars.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#98

Post by giarc »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #59

They should give drivers a simple way to notify Tesla exactly when phantom breaking happens. E.g. use the mic and when Tesla users say ‘Tesla phantom’ it would send the flagged data to a central repository to train against. Regardless of your feelings towards Tesla, we need someone to figure out safe self driving before the effort is halted and humanity has to wait a century before a new generation tries again (like…

They would never do that as it emphasizes the problem and draws more attention to it.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#99

Post by LeoPanthera »

qwertox wrote: post #50

How do they deal with insects hitting the glass covering the cameras? Also if multiple cameras get blurred because of insect dirt in front of them?

It tells you if that happens, you get a "camera obscured" message, so you can stop and clean it.

It doesn't actually happen very often, the aerodynamics are quite good at diverting crud from the cameras.

(The front-facing cameras are behind the wipers, so you can at least clean those ones while driving.)

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#100

Post by malsanton »

metadat wrote: post #43
indus wrote: post #25

I think Elon needs to open source the braking flowchart…

Mollusk not likely to give it up, unfortunately.

i think gp was referencing the hypocrisy in Musk’s demands to open source Twitter’s recommendation algorithm
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