> Moreover, ethylene in the concentrations that cause trances is extremely flammable, and there’s no historical record of any explosions or fires. That doesn't seem to be true. Herodotus 2.180: "When the Amphictyons paid three hundred talents to have the temple that now stands at Delphi finished (as that which was formerly there burnt down by accident), it was the Delphians' lot to pay a fourth of the cost." [1] I'm…
What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
91–100 of 167 posts
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#92The final point about positivism is important. Geeks love naturalistic explanations of mythological ideas, however far fetched. Trolls are really cultural memory of Neanderthals. Dragons are dinosaurs. The witch craze was due to ergot poisoning etc. If anyone is interested in what actual historians think about such theories, read for example this: https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2018/06/delphic-oracle.ht... Tl/dr:…
> Greeks love naturalistic explanations of mythological ideas, however far fetched.
And wonder whether this is also broadly, historically true?
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think first it would need to be established that she did in fact see the future.
Yes. The explanation “it was all made up by one or more writers” sufficiently covers not just the precognition, but also the hallucinations and even the existence of the oracle.
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#94[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe_epilepsy#Effects...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschwind_syndrome#Hyperreligi...
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Drugs" is simple enough. Actually training naked virgins to go bananas without some chemical help seems a little more complicated. Something the article doesn't seem to consider is the possibilty that there was some kind of (natural or built) chamber where the gas could get trapped and thus concentration be higher.
Not training. Maybe she figured out that making up bullshit gave her power. Seems a lot simpler than "drugs".
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
The idea is that it an example of explicitly non-linguistic thinking—hence not all thinking can be defined or limited by linguistic structures.
a counterpoint is that this example begs the question; it assumes a priori that “thinking about gears” is not a language itself. which, who knows, it might be!
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is an example of Positivism. I think the primary problem with positivism is the knowledge about the universe is never fully attained, so it feels more like a confused reasoning process. The assumption the scientific method will explain everything someday is irrational. When is that going to happen? With more work? What positivism really is, is a commitment to a bunch of work in the future to "prove" something is…
Well okay, but when the scientific method produces knowledge, the voracity of that knowledge can be checked by an observer. When a mystic convinces a large number of people that their opinions are in fact, truths, that is not a process that can be checked by an observer, and the “knowledge” produced has nothing tying itself back to reality.
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#98People speak in tongues at church because they are expected to, have seen it before, and they lie about it. It seems that should be the presumption in the case of Delphi, too, rather than a biochemical mechanism or "antipositivism". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaking_in_tongues#Medical_re...
I don't think most people "lie about it", at least not intentionally. I think it's more likely they get really caught up in the moment or something among those lines. I am interested in what in what it would be like to go to a concert of a bar with one of these people.
I have not actually met an ex-charismatic who could demonstrate this to me, but I would be interested in meeting one. I have never done glossolalia myself, I always thought there was something off about it. I have been at a charismatic church where people were practicing it. I was relieved that they were not extremely loud, they weren't rolling or flailing around, but I admit I found the audible chaos of it somewhat unnerving. I've heard charismatic Christians speak of the presence of God, or of spiritual power as a feeling of "electricity" or tingling. It seems to me that a major aim in that movement is to feel highly energized.
I ended up in a faith tradition that has a difficult but slow, calm, scripted practice, one that evangelicals would be likely to call "vain repetitions". I think the accusation could stick that I badly wanted some beauty and order. I believe that the gift of tongues is experienced as a miraculous automatic translation in the spoken word; we see it as a reversal of what happened at the tower of Babel.
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#99This isn't asking the hard question though: how did the oracle see the future?
I think first it would need to be established that she did in fact see the future.
Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?
#100I know that magic is poo-pooed and all, but, have you considered that answer as well? Or perhaps they weren't hallucinations, and instead divinations. Calling what the Oracle of Delphi had "hallucinations" puts a bad spin on it from the onset. Or lets not get hung up with the word "magic". Lets call it a 5th type of energy. Mechanical detection don't work, but a number of humans can feel it. Hard to measure for sure.…
In other words, unfalsifiable. That means it's unscientific too.