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Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

nature.com

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Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#91

Post by mrtesthah »

ipaddr wrote: post #57
Angostura wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You either believe the statistics, or you don't - but your anecdata is meaningless. The excess mortality figures tell you need to know.

How do you subtract the number of deaths caused by the vaccine itself?

Excess deaths correlate with covid infection levels — not with vaccination rates. If the vaccine caused excess deaths then we would expect to see that number increasing starting in 2021 — instead deaths have been decreasing, and only went up temporarily during subsequent covid infection waves (and the great majority of those cases unsurprising may bring the unvaccinated).

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-19...

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1495025615178768384?s=...

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#92

Post by DennisP »

ipaddr wrote: post #51
JamesBarney wrote: post #27

The problem with a study like this is that they probably aren't doing a good job distinguish true long covid from psychosomatic long covid. And there is a lot of evidence that "long covid" correlates much more highly with pre-existing anxiety levels than disease severity. I think long covid exists I just think there is also a lot of psychosomatic long covid and until we have a good diagnostic criteria to differentiat…

The media wants you to believe that the vaccine protects against longterm covid. If it doesn't many people would skip the upcoming 4th, 5th, 6th round because it is providing no additional protection against the latest variants. But here is an actual study that goes against this story. Will you believe science or myth? Are there enough excuses to keep the myth alive?

Far as I could tell, the study doesn't break it down by whether people have had boosters. So we don't know whether they provide additional protection.

The study also doesn't include omicron, so whether the shots protect against the latest variants is also unknown.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#93

Post by neverstop222 »

bee_rider wrote: post #62

It seems like there must be a million confounding factors at thing point. Given that immunity eventually wanes and new variants show up, at what point is a person considered no longer 'vaccinated?' I get that people were excited to not need masks anymore, but I'm hanging on to my n95 in most indoor situations, even in my relatively low-risk region.

If you are still wearing an n95 and your risk avoidance criteria remain stable, you will be wearing one in public for the rest of your life.

That's your choice, and it's your right, but it's absolutely bonkers, and if you think it should be mandated, you're a totalitarian.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#94

Post by unsupp0rted »

notahacker wrote: post #83
unsupp0rted wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without drawing any conclusions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballer... There were a lot more sudden deaths in football in 2021 than in any other year. Could be: 1. Increased sudden heart failure due to Covid 2. Increased sudden heart failure due to vaccines 3. No increase in sudden heart failure, but in 2021 we observed and catalogued cases more meticulously than ever 4. Something else, un…

> There were a lot more sudden deaths in football in 2021 than in any other year. That's a claim not supported by your link. Recency bias (and perhaps a greater media and Wiki-editing focus following a player suffering non-fatal cardiac arrest on the pitch in the World Cup) means there are more listed names in 2021. But the article also points out that FIFA investigated 617 deaths over a previous 5 year period, which…

> Recency bias (and perhaps a greater media and Wiki-editing focus following a player suffering non-fatal cardiac arrest on the pitch in the World Cup) means there are more listed names in 2021.

My only claim is that Wikipedia catalogues a lot more sudden deaths in Football in 2021.

You have repeated possibility #3 of my comment:

> 3. No increase in sudden heart failure, but in 2021 we observed and catalogued cases more meticulously than ever

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#95

Post by neverstop222 »

blenderdt wrote: post #87
ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #58

Is there any evidence that "long covid" is actually a thing?

No and yes. Long covid is nothing special. All virus infections can cause the same symptoms. The Epstein-Barr virus for example can make people tired for months.

And years later can cause multiple sclerosis

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#96

Post by Lionga »

notahacker wrote: post #83
unsupp0rted wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without drawing any conclusions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballer... There were a lot more sudden deaths in football in 2021 than in any other year. Could be: 1. Increased sudden heart failure due to Covid 2. Increased sudden heart failure due to vaccines 3. No increase in sudden heart failure, but in 2021 we observed and catalogued cases more meticulously than ever 4. Something else, un…

> There were a lot more sudden deaths in football in 2021 than in any other year. That's a claim not supported by your link. Recency bias (and perhaps a greater media and Wiki-editing focus following a player suffering non-fatal cardiac arrest on the pitch in the World Cup) means there are more listed names in 2021. But the article also points out that FIFA investigated 617 deaths over a previous 5 year period, which…

He gave exactly that as an option:

"3. No increase in sudden heart failure, but in 2021 we observed and catalogued cases more meticulously than ever"

but I am not sure anymore who is more stupid the anti vaxxer or the vaxx worshipper who will down vote and be against anything that could hint at the vaccines not being perfect.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#97

Post by bee_rider »

neverstop222 wrote: post #93
bee_rider wrote: post #62

It seems like there must be a million confounding factors at thing point. Given that immunity eventually wanes and new variants show up, at what point is a person considered no longer 'vaccinated?' I get that people were excited to not need masks anymore, but I'm hanging on to my n95 in most indoor situations, even in my relatively low-risk region.

If you are still wearing an n95 and your risk avoidance criteria remain stable, you will be wearing one in public for the rest of your life. That's your choice, and it's your right, but it's absolutely bonkers, and if you think it should be mandated, you're a totalitarian.

Unfortunately I can't really afford "brain fog" at the moment, and we're still apparently finding out new information about long COVID and vaccines, so I guess it turns out this wasn't actually bonkers.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#98

Post by SeanLuke »

tuckerpo wrote: post #15
SeanLuke wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what universe would getting vaccinated be getting conned? It's the smartest thing you could have done. AFAIK covid vaccines are not connected with heart issues beyond rather rare and generally mild cases of myocarditis, but getting covid is strongly connected to heart problems.

Is it really fair to call any form of cardiovascular dysfunction "mild"?

Yes.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#99

Post by DennisP »

spookthesunset wrote: post #86
qbasic_forever wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID has been the #3 cause of overall death in the US for two years now: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/s0422-third-leading-... "For the second year, COVID-19 was the third leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer." It is no exaggeration to say that COVID is a significant cause of death and threat to the health of the public. Only two things kill more people a year--heart disease and cancer. No…

> COVID has been the #3 cause of overall death in the US for two years now And yet two years into this I've yet to hear a solid answer to "is it 'died with' or 'died from'?" It's kind of funny that there is no answer to that because it dramatically changes how to interpret your figure. All these "experts" just skirt right around that question and asking it gets you labeled as a horrible alt-right grandma killer (whic…

The number of total deaths has gone up a little more than the number of known covid deaths. You do the math.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#100

Post by neverstop222 »

bee_rider wrote: post #97
neverstop222 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are still wearing an n95 and your risk avoidance criteria remain stable, you will be wearing one in public for the rest of your life. That's your choice, and it's your right, but it's absolutely bonkers, and if you think it should be mandated, you're a totalitarian.

Unfortunately I can't really afford "brain fog" at the moment, and we're still apparently finding out new information about long COVID and vaccines, so I guess it turns out this wasn't actually bonkers.

I'm sure there are lots of diseases that could dehabilitate you; my wife has brain fog from her multiple sclerosis and is still brave enough to go back to regular life because she understands that the risks of serious outcomes from the extant strains are incredibly low, and somehow she manages to be a successful professional with the brain fog.

Life is a risk. You have a lower chance of serious outcome -- assuming you're relatively healthy and younger than 80 -- from the extant strains than you have risk from driving. You can choose to face the risks of life and live, or grow old and die sad and scared.

I choose to be inspired by my wife's courage in the face of her brain fog. Our time on this planet is limited, and spending it afraid is a waste.

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