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Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

healthaffairs.org

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Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#91

Post by rahimnathwani »

scythe wrote: post #65
wahern wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real question we should be asking is why can't these poor people get access to proper medicine and treatment? Well, here in San Francisco you can access both relatively easily. But it turns out that people with substance abuse addictions tend not to exhibit strong executive functioning (at least contemporaneously) as compared to the average non-abuser. So when you remove all coercive policies whatsoever (becaus…

>Well, here in San Francisco you can access both relatively easily. It's no surprise that San Francisco is attractive to a certain kind of lifestylist. But when you look at the country you have 2 million addicts and only 400k on methadone. I find it very hard to believe that the average methadone clinic is running at 20% capacity. https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20190920....

"SF still has coercive policies. You think having the cops take your tent and all your stuff isn't coercive?"

Except that's not what happens. The group of tents closest to my home ~2 years ago is still there. And it's no longer the nearest.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#92

Post by lostmsu »

humbleguy wrote: post #70
Gigachad wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we want to accept normal people taking drugs which will fry their brains? Yes, only homeless addicts use these drugs because normal working people don't want to destroy their lives for a minor bit of fun.

This is a very misguided view. Majority of drug users are all around you, regular people who have families and hold jobs - your friends, your relatives, your coworkers. Just like majority of people who drink alcohol aren't alcoholics, majority of drug users aren't addicts.

Somehow I doubt that majority of drug users are from healthy families with kids.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#93

Post by alostpuppy »

xrd wrote: post #19
l0ng1nu5 wrote: post #9

The real question we should be asking is why can't these poor people get access to proper medicine and treatment? Instead they have to resort to playing Russian roulette every time they use. Decriminalisation and regulation are the biggest harm reduction measures that could be taken and it would have the added bonus of freeing up space in the prisons and reducing the power of the cartels. There wouldn't be a fent pro…

I'm from Portland which recently decriminalized drugs. I'm worried that this has the effect that dealers feel there is no prosecution for selling, and that this has led to a difficult situation for addicts. I'm of the opinion that without good mental health treatment options, this is an idea that creates more addicts who have no way to recover. I would love to understand if I'm wrong, and I know the pandemic is a con…

As I understand it they only decriminalized it for small amounts.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#94

Post by starkd »

rjbwork wrote: post #38
DantesKite wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decriminalisation doesn’t seem to be working in San Francisco.

Decrim without legalization or free supply to addicts doesn't do a lot for the poverty side of things. People are still going to spend every cent they can scrape together on their drug. We could supply the entire country's heroin/fent supply for probably 1/1000 what the average street user is paying for their doses, and we could prevent overdoses since there would be a chemically pure version of the drug with a label…

So now the government has to buy people their drugs? We don't do that for alcoholics. There's a very strong moral hazard argument against doing that, but it's just plain cruel to the very population you think you are helping.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#95

Post by dragonwriter »

starkd wrote: post #94
rjbwork wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decrim without legalization or free supply to addicts doesn't do a lot for the poverty side of things. People are still going to spend every cent they can scrape together on their drug. We could supply the entire country's heroin/fent supply for probably 1/1000 what the average street user is paying for their doses, and we could prevent overdoses since there would be a chemically pure version of the drug with a label…

So now the government has to buy people their drugs? We don't do that for alcoholics. There's a very strong moral hazard argument against doing that, but it's just plain cruel to the very population you think you are helping.

> So now the government has to buy people their drugs? We don't do that for alcoholics.

GP said “legalization or free supply”, and for alcohol we have legalization. So, yes, we do what the GP actually suggested, though not your strawman, for alcoholics.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#96

Post by scythe »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #91
scythe wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well, here in San Francisco you can access both relatively easily. It's no surprise that San Francisco is attractive to a certain kind of lifestylist. But when you look at the country you have 2 million addicts and only 400k on methadone. I find it very hard to believe that the average methadone clinic is running at 20% capacity. https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20190920....

"SF still has coercive policies. You think having the cops take your tent and all your stuff isn't coercive?" Except that's not what happens. The group of tents closest to my home ~2 years ago is still there. And it's no longer the nearest.

Commenters are so weird. 90% of the effort in that comment went into the first paragraph and guess what people responded to? It's gone. It's not worth arguing.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#97

Post by Tiktaalik »

starkd wrote: post #94
rjbwork wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decrim without legalization or free supply to addicts doesn't do a lot for the poverty side of things. People are still going to spend every cent they can scrape together on their drug. We could supply the entire country's heroin/fent supply for probably 1/1000 what the average street user is paying for their doses, and we could prevent overdoses since there would be a chemically pure version of the drug with a label…

So now the government has to buy people their drugs? We don't do that for alcoholics. There's a very strong moral hazard argument against doing that, but it's just plain cruel to the very population you think you are helping.

We do create a safe supply of drugs and a safe, monitored use site for alcoholics. We call them bars.

We don't provide this for other drugs.

There's a handful of safe injection sites for drugs in some cities around the world (such as Vancouver) but the drugs are still toxic. It's good that people are on hand to handle the inevitable overdoses and other issues. This saves lives.

The further necessary solution however is a safe supply of drugs, so that people can actually know what they're using. This is the core problem that is driving so many deaths.

Imagine if there was no such thing as legal liquor or bars and alcoholics just drank some stuff that some guy made. There'd be a lot more deaths and poisonings from this.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#99

Post by xrd »

alostpuppy wrote: post #93
xrd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Portland which recently decriminalized drugs. I'm worried that this has the effect that dealers feel there is no prosecution for selling, and that this has led to a difficult situation for addicts. I'm of the opinion that without good mental health treatment options, this is an idea that creates more addicts who have no way to recover. I would love to understand if I'm wrong, and I know the pandemic is a con…

As I understand it they only decriminalized it for small amounts.

True. And, I've also heard that basically the police have said that there is no point in enforcing any kind of trade because dealers can always find a way to make it look like the amounts are under the limit. So dealers are operating in a completely laissez faire environment. I suspect the police are collaborating on that story to avoid dealing with arresting drug dealers until public sentiment changes, but that is just my own biased opinion.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#100

Post by rahimnathwani »

scythe wrote: post #96
rahimnathwani wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"SF still has coercive policies. You think having the cops take your tent and all your stuff isn't coercive?" Except that's not what happens. The group of tents closest to my home ~2 years ago is still there. And it's no longer the nearest.

Commenters are so weird. 90% of the effort in that comment went into the first paragraph and guess what people responded to? It's gone. It's not worth arguing.

"Commenters are so weird."

"It's not worth arguing."

In cases where it's not worth arguing, it's usually not worth mounting an ad hominem attack, either.

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