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Teach your kids poker, not chess

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Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#91

Post by thih9 »

christkv wrote: post #88
spekcular wrote: post #85

My problem with this article: I did not see a concrete suggestion for where children should play poker. Clearly, they cannot play at casinos or for real money online. I suppose they could play for fake money online, but there the dynamics are much different. (Why not go all-in and risk it all if you can just create a fresh account if you lose?) Fake money tournaments, where the goal is to come out on top instead of m…

You can play for candy or video game time or any other non monetary value the kids value

Somehow that seems worse than actual money.

Personally I’d find it easier to risk a $100 than to risk e.g. a $100 voucher to a restaurant that I like.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#92

Post by distortedsignal »

derivagral wrote: post #51
dragontamer wrote: post #20

How about we play competitive Pokemon instead? Its got all the reads, bluffs, random chance, meta-gaming, math and strategy, and none of the gambling. ------ Don't get me wrong. Poker is a great game. But if we're talking about "reading" the opponent, relatively simple decisions that have deep mathematical backgrounds... a large variety of "simultaneous choice" video games (Pokemon, being a turnbased game with 60% to…

I grew up on Pokemon & MTG. Got competitive, made the Tour, etc. I am not sure I want to repeat this with my son. A friend is going through this with his child ( The upside is that a healthy exposure to "work doesn't equal outcome", risk calcs, and reading people are very helpful lessons to learn, so personally I'm a bit torn on this. I wonder if there isn't a happy middle ground these days that doesn't require a "bu…

One way to do this (at least in MtG) is to play “cheap” formats: only use so-called “common” cards (examples: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/pauper#paper). Only use a certain set or a number of sets. In DnD, there’s the concept of “session 0” where the players determine how they’re going to play the game - it helps for players in card games to have a similar rules for power level and expectation.

And it’s pretty well known in the card game community that if you’re looking for cards, you should NEVER buy packs. Buy your singles, and save your money.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#93

Post by xmprt »

dragontamer wrote: post #66
derivagral wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on Pokemon & MTG. Got competitive, made the Tour, etc. I am not sure I want to repeat this with my son. A friend is going through this with his child ( The upside is that a healthy exposure to "work doesn't equal outcome", risk calcs, and reading people are very helpful lessons to learn, so personally I'm a bit torn on this. I wonder if there isn't a happy middle ground these days that doesn't require a "bu…

Pokemon the video game, not the TCG. The video game requires no money aside from the cartridge, and the strategy is surprisingly deep: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-metagame-discuss... Magic is the superior TCG in my opinion, thou Pokemon TCG is fun. In any case, don't play the 'pay to win' formats. Instead, play draft or sealed, which are much more fair.

And if you want to play Showdown, you don't even need to pay for cartridges either. Plus there's no grinding for EVs, IVs, moves, and items.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#94

Post by 99_00 »

dragontamer wrote: post #20

How about we play competitive Pokemon instead? Its got all the reads, bluffs, random chance, meta-gaming, math and strategy, and none of the gambling. ------ Don't get me wrong. Poker is a great game. But if we're talking about "reading" the opponent, relatively simple decisions that have deep mathematical backgrounds... a large variety of "simultaneous choice" video games (Pokemon, being a turnbased game with 60% to…

Pricing risk is something I assume Pokémon doesn’t have.

But I’m not going to encourage my kids to play poker. I will teach them the game if they want. But without the risk of actual material loss, the game loses a lot. Money is highly emotional. It’s gain or loss, the emotions that triggers, manipulating those emotions in others, predicting their behaviour based on their state, and even simulating “tilt” and presenting an emotional state are all things that is the makes poker what it. Without that it’s a below average game.

And I’m not going to allow children to gamble with money.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#95

Post by routerl »

Nah, teach your kids chess, so that they can exercise their deductive/calculating muscles during that golden phase of childhood in which our brains are malleable enough to easily learn new languages: realize that artificial languages (i.e. deductive systems) are all functionally equivalent, and use chess as just another avenue into building deductive fluency; use multiple such avenues (e.g. music, Euclid).

Call this educational stage "deductive naivety": the child will become good at applying logic to their experiences. They will, shockingly quickly, outgrow this phase, and realize that the world does not lend itself to deduction in all cases. Now we can introduce nuance, distinguish between deductive/inductive/abductive reasoning, and start to introduce the child to the multivariate dimensions of the world.

In this way, the child becomes a curious and rigorous thinker. If you choose poker instead, you'll just breed a gambler.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#96

Post by [deleted] »

mirceal wrote: post #32
dragontamer wrote: post #20

How about we play competitive Pokemon instead? Its got all the reads, bluffs, random chance, meta-gaming, math and strategy, and none of the gambling. ------ Don't get me wrong. Poker is a great game. But if we're talking about "reading" the opponent, relatively simple decisions that have deep mathematical backgrounds... a large variety of "simultaneous choice" video games (Pokemon, being a turnbased game with 60% to…

Mtg is poker on hard mode. You don't know what the opponent's deck has in it or what combos you need to defend against. The game meta + competitive play are wildly entertaining.

[deleted]

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#97

Post by jimmygrapes »

spekcular wrote: post #85

My problem with this article: I did not see a concrete suggestion for where children should play poker. Clearly, they cannot play at casinos or for real money online. I suppose they could play for fake money online, but there the dynamics are much different. (Why not go all-in and risk it all if you can just create a fresh account if you lose?) Fake money tournaments, where the goal is to come out on top instead of m…

Maybe they could play with their parents, at home? Is that too bizarre to consider these days?

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#98

Post by jjulius »

turtledove wrote: post #28

Yeah... Teach your kids the games they are interested in, and use that as an opportunity to build bonds. Poker, chess, go, Catan, Magic, whatever. Trying to optimize your child is so backwards to me.

Agreed. My other issue - why just one? A kid can't learn to play two different games?

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#99

Post by a_e_k »

Personally, my favorite card game is contract bridge.

Imperfect information, randomness with room for skill, strongly asymmetric play and scoring, etc., but it also requires cooperation via rather narrow communication channels that your opponents get to observe.

(For those not familiar, four play at a time and you are partners with the person across the table from you. After dealing, there's an auction phase and your bids are the only form of communication you are allowed to use to signal to your partner. The bids are known to everyone, and if your opponents ask you must tell them the bidding convention that you are using. After the auction, the winner of the auction plays for both themselves and their partner -- whose cards are put face up after the opening -- against the other two. Hence the asymmetric play, and the scoring also works differently for the two pairs.)

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#100

Post by goldeneye13_ »

spekcular wrote: post #85

My problem with this article: I did not see a concrete suggestion for where children should play poker. Clearly, they cannot play at casinos or for real money online. I suppose they could play for fake money online, but there the dynamics are much different. (Why not go all-in and risk it all if you can just create a fresh account if you lose?) Fake money tournaments, where the goal is to come out on top instead of m…

They could play online with micro stakes. The smallest I know is 1p/2p game. Has a lot of players, people take it pretty seriously as these are the stages you play when learning. And you need about 50 buy ins (100$ total budget) to have enough to learn. This is not super cheap but can easily last for a year or more assuming the person is actually learning to play rather than doing mad gambling.
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