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Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy

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Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy

#91
For those wondering if we could get sharper images with JWST, here’s the previously imaged black hole (same angular size as our own) compared to a single pixel from Hubble’s wide field camera 3:

https://twitter.com/alex_parker/status/1116070667068170240?s...

JWST will have smaller “pixels” but is in the same ballpark.

Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy

#92
I love this quote, it's great popular science communication. "the brightness and pattern of the gas around Sgr A* was changing rapidly as the EHT Collaboration was observing it — a bit like trying to take a clear picture of a puppy quickly chasing its tail."

Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy

#93
post #66
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quantum Physics and General Relativity make different predictions in specific circumstances which are beyond our ability to test to figure out which one is wrong. They can't both be perfectly correct. But in every test we can make, both seem to model reality really well. The best place to look for new data where we might find reality disagreeing with either model is in the extreme parts of the universe, like black ho…

Relatedly, before general relativity, people already knew something was wrong with Newton's theory of gravity from observing the orbit of Mercury, which didn't follow the theory accurately. At that time Mercury, being so close to the Sun, was an extreme condition that showed the flaws in the theory. The fact that general relativity continues to hold up to every observation we can make is remarkable.

I'd be willing to bet that the discrepancy is something that we generally consider invariant but in reality should be a ratio between two things that are very large, but get bigger or smaller at _slightly_ different rates depending on the scale or distances you're working with.

Granted, I only ever got as far as E&M physics in college so I could be way off here but that scenario has turned up so many times in history.

Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy

#94
post #90
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gravitational physicist here. Every time we look in a new place and see that GR still works, it is pretty amazing. Part of this is the fact that everyone in the field works very hard to find a crack in GR's armor, and so far it has resisted everyone. The other part is that GR has a romantic beauty to it, both in structure and in predictions. Each time GR matches reality in a new context, the feeling is akin to watchi…

It seems the common expectation is that GR is more likely to be the theory that needs to be modified the most - or more or less tossed out and replaced with a quantum theory of gravity. Is it possible that GR is just "right" and QM needs to be modified to fit into it?

Whenever we learn more about the connections between GR and the rest of physics, the early corrections are likely to appear as "GR+new stuff" or "QM+new stuff". Both theories have enough predictive power that we'll hang on to them as effective theories for the rest of humanity's existence.

That said, the mathematical fundamentals of GR do not directly incorporate notions of the uncertainty principle. That fact alone, I believe, means that GR is an incomplete description of space/time/physics.

Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy

#96
post #32

I find the whole thing amazing and captivating - yet the image is … huh … slightly underwhelming. It looks like some gaussian blurred random image. I wish it could be the kind of crisp image JWST ‘sent’. It’s difficult to force oneself to not romanticise these un-visible things based on artists visualisation we got accustomed to.

It reminds me of all the hype and exuberance around the "first ever picture of a black hole". An achievement worthy of being lauded, for sure, but something just felt so artificial about the coverage. And truth be told, the photo itself was underwhelming in light of how incredible it was made out to be.

Not to mention, as the article points out, this isn't even an image of a black hole. It's an image of clumps of gas, near the center of the galaxy.

>Although we cannot see the black hole itself, because it is completely dark

Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy

#97

I recall the EHT imaging 2 objects back in 2019 - M87 and another black hole. Does anyone remember what that was, or am I mistaken? I thought it was Sagittarius A* back then.

They collected data on both back in 2017. It took until now to develop the image processing techniques to account for the rapid changes in the accretion disk around Sag.A*.

Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious but why?

They want an exciting disruption to current theory.

Side note: Einstein didn't believe in black holes, at least initially.

Black holes are a solution to the general relativity equations, but Einstein thought they were just a mathematical quirk, and that in real life, they wouldn't have been able to form.

So ever time someone says "Einstein was right" when talking about black holes, then no. He was right about general relativity, but he was wrong about the existence of black holes.

Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy

#99
post #97

I recall the EHT imaging 2 objects back in 2019 - M87 and another black hole. Does anyone remember what that was, or am I mistaken? I thought it was Sagittarius A* back then.

They collected data on both back in 2017. It took until now to develop the image processing techniques to account for the rapid changes in the accretion disk around Sag.A*.

Ah, so they didn't release an image of it back then? Or was it just a less precise image? Thought I saw one but can't find it now among all these newly release images. Thanks BTW

Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy

#100
post #89
post #5

> “We were stunned by how well the size of the ring agreed with predictions from Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity," And ten thousand physicists sighed disappointingly.

Gravitational physicist here. Every time we look in a new place and see that GR still works, it is pretty amazing. Part of this is the fact that everyone in the field works very hard to find a crack in GR's armor, and so far it has resisted everyone. The other part is that GR has a romantic beauty to it, both in structure and in predictions. Each time GR matches reality in a new context, the feeling is akin to watchi…

> the feeling is akin to watching a beautiful sunrise on a summer's morning. You've seen it before, but darn if it isn't pretty.

That's beautifully worded. It brings up the respect scientists can have for one another's work (in the best case scenarii, let's skip the bad seeds for a moment).

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