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EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

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Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#91

Post by Freak_NL »

stef25 wrote: post #58
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

You're probably not the first person to ask the question of "but what about parents taking pictures of their naked kids in a pool", I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it if anything to lighten their workload. That doesn't mean it will be perfect but no matter how jaded we all are, nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.

I don't see how it will be different this time. The past decade has seen a bunch of failed projects that used algorithms to do the heavy lifting, and justice and redress for those involved has not even been served in all cases.

The Dutch Toeslagenaffaire¹ was a massive failure of using discriminating algorithms to judge if tax payers were defrauding the state (most of those marked as fraudsters were innocent and many lost jobs, housing, and hundreds even had their children placed into foster care (!) due to the cascading effects caused by being on this list).

The British Post Office scandal² is another famous case that will be familiar to those from the UK.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31013994

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#92

Post by pjerem »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #19
blibble wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars can kill people. Should we ban those? the EU commission's starting on this one too: https://www.sae.org/news/2019/04/eu-to-mandate-intelligent-s...

People are already selling shirts with "20"(kmh) speed limit signs on the back because of this.

Man that's smart !

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#93

Post by Cthulhu_ »

krono wrote: post #7

Yeah not like this. I will turn myself into a black hole as much as possible. If they somehow ever come to suspect me of these things I will gladly do anything I can to support their investigations. They can come by with a warrant, look through my message history specifically and only for evidence related to their investigation, it will happen in my presence, and no copies of my data will be made and/or fed into the…

No, that's not how you should be thinking. You say nothing, you give no access, and you demand a lawyer and a search warrant. You do not need to cooperate. You cannot trust any police or investigators. This isn't about whether you are guilty of anything or not, this is about basic human rights, the right to privacy, and due process of law.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#94

Post by dandellion »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #53
xeeeeeeeeeeenu wrote: post #20

I don't think this proposal is quite enough, we can do better to protect the children. The homes of the people who champion this proposal should be thoroughly searched for child abuse materials every week . Naturally, their personal electronic devices should be taken for analysis. I understand this may cause them some inconvenience, but think of the children!

Sorry, privacy from government surveillance applies only to our elected officials, not to you and me. /s

When we get spied it's for our own good and when they get spied it's an issue of national security. Because they make the nation and we're just resources they monitor.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#96

Post by Cthulhu_ »

chinathrow wrote: post #80
op00to wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, here's what will really happen: 5:30am, loud knock at the door. You open the door a crack to see who it is. Cops bust in. You're immediately handcuffed and sat outside. Cops take anything with a screen, usb plug, etc. All your media. All your computers. All your external hard drives. Every one of these devices will be imaged, and archived prior to being searched. The data will be kept for years, to pro…

At this point, everything encrypted at rest will be a must.

And even then, weaknesses are built into encryption, long-term it may be broken with advances in computing (I mean who knows what the NSA and co are working on at the moment), etc.

It's better to not do or have anything illegal. Make it so you can say "I have nothing to hide", but don't give them access voluntarily because of that.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#97

Post by vetinari »

pantalaimon wrote: post #34
Tade0 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather ban (too) dense cities. Nobody needs to live at a density of 10k+ people per square kilometre .

Why? It's the most efficient use of resources and allows for some great cultural and public infrastructure to exist that just doesn't make sense without density.

Just because it is most efficient, does not mean it is enjoyable or that the life in such a hive isn't missing some qualities.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#98

Post by Freak_NL »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #83
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

I mean that's cute and all, but why are your parents taking pictures of naked children and publishing them online? That's making assumptions about the channel used to send them and the phone itself being secure. Better to not risk it - not because of this legislation, but because of anyone else that might be listening in.

Sending pictures to me via WhatsApp is not 'publishing things online'. It is meant as a private communication channel. The current proposal wants to listen in on those channels.

And obviously, I personally, can instruct anyone handling my child to not do that when such laws come into effect, but that doesn't change the fact that for many people such actions are completely normal (as it should be).

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#99

Post by nahnahno »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #83
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

I mean that's cute and all, but why are your parents taking pictures of naked children and publishing them online? That's making assumptions about the channel used to send them and the phone itself being secure. Better to not risk it - not because of this legislation, but because of anyone else that might be listening in.

This is how free speech ends. If the parent doesn’t think the image is inappropriate or would damage the child, they should be free to share what they want. Full stop.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#100

Post by varispeed »

So when I talked about these proposals few years ago, I was told I am a conspiracy theorist and the EU wouldn't have done such a thing. People blindly believe that the EU is this source of universal greatness and there is nothing sinister going on behind the scenes. Unfortunately this effort goes beyond the EU - other countries, mainly those ran by WEF people, develop similar changes. How are they going to determine your social credit score, without knowing your thoughts and who you talk to?
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