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The End of Industrial Society

palladiummag.com

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Re: The End of Industrial Society

#91

Post by CryptoPunk »

panosfilianos wrote: post #43
jonstewart wrote: post #41

Palladium magazine was founded by Wolf Tivy and Jonah Bennett. It is funded by Peter Thiel. Jonah Bennett previously worked at The Daily Caller and he resigned from Palladium when it was discovered he had authored some racist messages and was friends with various white nationalists. Samo Burja, the author, is undoubtedly a more serious and educated person. However, he promotes a “Great Founder Theory” which is not so…

Journalism would be so much better with context like this. I wonder if there any initiatives that provide it. Maybe the blockchain would be of help here.

This context is quite biased by ideological preconceptions.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#92

Post by rabite »

jonstewart wrote: post #41

Palladium magazine was founded by Wolf Tivy and Jonah Bennett. It is funded by Peter Thiel. Jonah Bennett previously worked at The Daily Caller and he resigned from Palladium when it was discovered he had authored some racist messages and was friends with various white nationalists. Samo Burja, the author, is undoubtedly a more serious and educated person. However, he promotes a “Great Founder Theory” which is not so…

>Jonah Bennett previously worked at The Daily Caller and he resigned from Palladium when it was discovered he had authored some racist messages and was friends with various white nationalists.

This is the very definition of ad hominem -- you don't want to confront the messages of the essay, so you try to discredit it by highlighting that one of its authors had opinions you disagree with.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#93

Post by lazyier »

People, like the WEF, who spend a great deal of time trying to anticipate the future "revolutions" and post-"revolutions" are just a bunch of self-important assholes.

The point about the economy and "revolutions" and other things is that it's an extremely complex chaotic system. Exponentially more complex than anything any computer can model. And details matter. Details matter very very much. A accidental conversation in a hallway or a pebble rolling across a road can lead to world shattering revelations and new technology that will forever after change humanity's trajectory.

This means you cannot predict the future anymore than you can recreate an ice cube from a puddle it makes after it melted.

The required information is simply not available.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#94

Post by zozbot234 »

woodruffw wrote: post #88
zozbot234 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...it's about formalizing and legitimizing power. Again, power is a pervasive feature of any complex society. Do you pick formal and legitimized power, or power that's completely illegitimate and shorn of any formality? > Making Peter Thiel a Duke isn't going to help. If you have some sort of proceedings to make Peter Thiel a Duke, there might also be ways to strip him of his title for cause. Which might actually i…

> If you have some sort of proceedings to make Peter Thiel a Duke, there might also be ways to strip him of his title for cause. Which might actually increase the public's collective power over acknowledged elites, and that without any resort to the more physical means you alluded to in your comment. After all, it would be more of a routine quasi-criminal sanction than a social revolution. This is specious reasoning.…

It's not like I'm inventing anything here. Back in the times and places where noble titles were taken seriously as markers of increased social legitimacy, stripping people of them was an acknowledged thing. Far more reversible than things like the guillotine, which in practice was way more comparable to your human-to-mulch machine - and that in its long-range society-wide effects, as much as its more immediate ones.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#95

Post by _ugfj »

onesafari wrote: post #71
jonstewart wrote: post #41

Palladium magazine was founded by Wolf Tivy and Jonah Bennett. It is funded by Peter Thiel. Jonah Bennett previously worked at The Daily Caller and he resigned from Palladium when it was discovered he had authored some racist messages and was friends with various white nationalists. Samo Burja, the author, is undoubtedly a more serious and educated person. However, he promotes a “Great Founder Theory” which is not so…

What about the actual contents of the publication or article in question?

[flagged]

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#96

Post by CryptoPunk »

shswkna wrote: post #36
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I found an interesting thesis that made me think "OK, parts of this sound plausible to me, help me connect the dots." But then there were no dots to be found, let alone connections. I am a very literal person, and in my youth I used to think this was a bit of a handicap, as "big thinkers" needed to be able to think of things in more abstract ways. As I've gotten older, though, I think I've become more aware o…

A “big idea” that sounds abstract to a literal thinker, should be seen as a hunch or an intuition about a situation. It can never be explained in satisfiable depth to a literal thinker. Only in hindsight will it be obvious. You expect proof, or a literal pathway of thought and explanation, because it has served you well. This is the guaranteed route to proving an idea, if such a literal route exists. Such ideas are g…

You've hit the nail on the head with this. I often see "big idea" thinkers who I find to be brilliant, like Jordan Peterson, criticized, and I think a lot of that comes from literal thinkers who 1. apply a rigorous evidentiary standard when assessing their writings, when they should instead see them as well-articulated cases for a "hunch" and thus not expect them to contain proof for their theories, and/or 2. don't see the utility of expositions of hunches.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#97

Post by Mizza »

jollybean wrote: post #66
jonstewart wrote: post #41

Palladium magazine was founded by Wolf Tivy and Jonah Bennett. It is funded by Peter Thiel. Jonah Bennett previously worked at The Daily Caller and he resigned from Palladium when it was discovered he had authored some racist messages and was friends with various white nationalists. Samo Burja, the author, is undoubtedly a more serious and educated person. However, he promotes a “Great Founder Theory” which is not so…

Please. I mean, yes, but we should be 'doubly skeptical' of everything from The Atlantic, the New Yorker, the NYT, Fox, Bloomberg and WSJ and Foreign Policy as well.

Yes.

I really wish more people knew that Jeffrey Goldberg, editor in chief at the Atlantic, literally beat political prisoners bloody while he was an IDF prison guard at the world's largest detainment camp.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#98

Post by woodruffw »

zozbot234 wrote: post #94
woodruffw wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have some sort of proceedings to make Peter Thiel a Duke, there might also be ways to strip him of his title for cause. Which might actually increase the public's collective power over acknowledged elites, and that without any resort to the more physical means you alluded to in your comment. After all, it would be more of a routine quasi-criminal sanction than a social revolution. This is specious reasoning.…

It's not like I'm inventing anything here. Back in the times and places where noble titles were taken seriously as markers of increased social legitimacy, stripping people of them was an acknowledged thing. Far more reversible than things like the guillotine, which in practice was way more comparable to your human-to-mulch machine - and that in its long-range society-wide effects, as much as its more immediate ones.

> Back in the times and places where noble titles were taken seriously as markers of increased social legitimacy, stripping people of them was an acknowledged thing.

It was not an "acknowledged thing." It was a bloody, brutal affair. Men fighting for titles is probably the one thing that measures up to religion in terms of lives lost.

And all of this before refuting the central point: the duke of some random duchy in 1305 had no "increased social legitimacy" in any way that matters to contemporary humans. He was able to petition whatever king he served, and he could rule over his own land insofar as someone with a bigger army didn't mind. It is, on face value, ridiculous that we're discussing this as a viable state of affairs.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#99

Post by donkeybeer »

zozbot234 wrote: post #84
majormajor wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a neat little rhetorical trick you're doing here: > A complex society will always have elites, as a simple matter of structure. The remaining question is whether those elite social positions should be legible or not. "Whether or not they should be legible or not" is not the only remaining question. Nor, I think, is "legible" the right word for what seems like it's being proposed - a return to "aristocracy" is…

> ...it's about formalizing and legitimizing power. Again, power is a pervasive feature of any complex society. Do you pick formal and legitimized power, or power that's completely illegitimate and shorn of any formality? > Making Peter Thiel a Duke isn't going to help. If you have some sort of proceedings to make Peter Thiel a Duke, there might also be ways to strip him of his title for cause. Which might actually i…

Bullshit. Invent any new title you want, you will still get powerful people who aren't holders of that title and whom control the holders of that title. If thats all you wanted, inventing a new position won't do shit. This only furthers the argument that what you actually wanted if that was your goal is to start severely limiting the power of someone who reaches a certain level of wealth or influence etc.

I think you are making the mistake of reading too hard into these writings and somehow managed to invent a meaning in it. The reality is unfortunately as simple as that these people imagine they would get to be kings and rule over everyone. The philosophy dropout verbose word vomit is required to obscure this simple and obviously idiotic point because of course why would anyone pay attention to it otherwise.

Re: The End of Industrial Society

#100

Post by pavlov »

donkeybeer wrote: post #45
jonstewart wrote: post #41

Palladium magazine was founded by Wolf Tivy and Jonah Bennett. It is funded by Peter Thiel. Jonah Bennett previously worked at The Daily Caller and he resigned from Palladium when it was discovered he had authored some racist messages and was friends with various white nationalists. Samo Burja, the author, is undoubtedly a more serious and educated person. However, he promotes a “Great Founder Theory” which is not so…

You have to remember the basic idea behind a lot of these word salads is that "We need to return to kings and aristocracy" and that "Of course I am a high iq intellectual who will be the nobility and not a feudal worker, why is there any doubt?". Everything starts making sense then.

It’s uncomfortable for the Thiel-funded new right movement that their dream state is essentially realized in present-day Russia, and they’re not able to explain how their ideas would lead to a different outcome.

Protectionist policies, focus on national identity, celebration of traditional values and gender roles; a “national CEO” whose transformative powers transcend the slow, frustrating democratic machinery. This describes both Putinism and the American right’s goals. It’s not a coincidence that they were increasingly cozy with Russia until Putin rolled into Ukraine.

Putinists love to make the claim that Ukraine isn’t a real nation (and Steve Bannon went on record to agree). It’s worth noting that the same arguments would apply to Canada. If the Thiel-funded right succeeds, they’ll eventually need a war to fuel the nationalist fire. Why not a reunification of the North American colonies? Canada is obviously controlled by decadent forces that need to be purged, just like Ukraine…

Trump wanted to buy Greenland. Good old territorial expansion is part of this value system.

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