When I made another Monkey Island • Hacker News Board

Re: When I made another Monkey Island

#91

Post by kemayo » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

ffhhj wrote: post #76

the_af wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Star Wars prequels simply weren't good for storytelling/plot reasons, not just visuals. The characters weren't interesting, or even worse, were universally reviled like Jar Jar. The main character (both as a kid and as a teenager) was annoying as hell. The story didn't mesh well with the established Star Wars movies, like that thing with midichlorians that was thankfully played down in subsequent movies. For some…

Lucas planned Jar Jar to be revealed as the Sith Lord in the second movie, that's why the character is unlikeable, but it would have been an interesting plot twist and would have made the first movie rewatchable since he place many little clues. Authors shouldn't be scared to develop their vision, and then create something to please them that will suck anyway.

I'm pretty sure that Darth Jar Jar is only a fan theory, without any commentary from Lucas confirming it. (We can speculate, but I dislike saying it so confidently.)

Re: When I made another Monkey Island

#92

Post by halostatue » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #79

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same with the sequels, they're making big jumps in the established lore, and they made the huge mistake of not actually fleshing out the story beforehand (like e.g. the MCU), leading to three disconnected movies full of attempted nostalgia and pushing merchandise; they made fanservice instead of good films.

Actually from what I heard they DID flesh out things. But then they made the serious error of hiring Rian Johnson AND giving him free rein with the direction of the movie. Rian Johnson already stated himself, he likes making divisive films. He also stated he doens`t like Star Wars... So he proceeded to ignore the plans that they had, and just do whatever he wanted. 1. He ignored several planned story arcs and just sh…

I find Ep 7 to be mostly unwatchable because it’s almost all fan service without a real story to be found. There was no plot for Ep 8 to hang itself on, just a few coathooks widely spread.

Ep 8 had some really interesting character arcs, but also made some basic errors. As a movie, I think that it’s the strongest of the three sequels. Given a lack of plot points to really hang off, Johnson seems to have done something interesting, but left even fewer plot points to hang off than Abrams left him. Let’s be clear: if Lucasfilm had disagreed with his direction, they would have taken him off the project.

Ep 9 was more fan service (who can we throw into this scene?) with an even more inexplicable plot hook (if the Emperor was coming back in any way, there should have been hints of that in Ep 7).

I do not understand the fascination with J J Abrams. He claims to be a fan of various media, but IMO he is the shallowest type of fan out there, appreciating only certain aesthetics without looking any deeper. His Star Trek films are the absolute worst of all the Star Trek films, even worse than Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. Why are they the worst? Because they have become Generic Action Films with a Star Trek veneer. (This is more or less my complaint with Picard.) I dread the idea of seeing J J Abrams touch any more science fiction properties because he just doesn’t get them and turns them into Michael Bay films (but with lens flares instead of explosions).

Re: When I made another Monkey Island

#93

Post by the_af » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

ffhhj wrote: post #76

the_af wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Star Wars prequels simply weren't good for storytelling/plot reasons, not just visuals. The characters weren't interesting, or even worse, were universally reviled like Jar Jar. The main character (both as a kid and as a teenager) was annoying as hell. The story didn't mesh well with the established Star Wars movies, like that thing with midichlorians that was thankfully played down in subsequent movies. For some…

Lucas planned Jar Jar to be revealed as the Sith Lord in the second movie, that's why the character is unlikeable, but it would have been an interesting plot twist and would have made the first movie rewatchable since he place many little clues. Authors shouldn't be scared to develop their vision, and then create something to please them that will suck anyway.

I think Darth Jar Jar is an amusing fan theory, but fan theory nonetheless. Yes, Ahmed Best (the actor) said it wasn't out of the question, but there's no official confirmation this was even considered. All there is, is fan based theories speculating about circumstantial evdience.

Re: When I made another Monkey Island

#94

Post by bnralt » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

darkwater wrote: post #12

When you read posts like this, and also the previous, linked one [1], you can clearly see that Ron is a smart and humble guy. I really dislike the fan mob that it's starting the hate because RTMI is not going to be a throwback and retro-game. > Monkey Island 1 and 2 weren't pixel art games. They were games using state-of- the-art tech and art. This is SO true, and as much as I loved those games, as much as I stopped…

> I really dislike the fan mob that it's starting the hate

I looked into responses to the announcement (on YouTube, Reddit, various forums), and didn't find any example of a "fan mob that it's starting the hate." Just about all of the top responses were extremely positive. I only found a small minority of comments saying they don't like the art style, and they're all pretty tame. For example, sorting by controversial on Reddit brings up this:

> I want to be excited but I'm not thrilled about that art and I haven't liked a Monkey Island thing since Curse of Monkey Island.

There can be a tendency to exaggerate any criticism in an effort to dismiss it. Ron is certainly free to make whatever game he likes. But at the same time, people are free to dislike whatever game he makes. It doesn't make them hateful or a mob, simply people with different opinions.

Re: When I made another Monkey Island

#95

Post by Biganon » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

rob74 wrote: post #28

darkwater wrote: post #12

When you read posts like this, and also the previous, linked one [1], you can clearly see that Ron is a smart and humble guy. I really dislike the fan mob that it's starting the hate because RTMI is not going to be a throwback and retro-game. > Monkey Island 1 and 2 weren't pixel art games. They were games using state-of- the-art tech and art. This is SO true, and as much as I loved those games, as much as I stopped…

What was special about the first two Monkey Island games (at least for me) was the atmosphere . I mean, just look at this screenshot: https://www.adventurecorner.de//uploads/images/games/monkey1... Parts 1 and 2 had this effect on me, with part 3 the magic was mostly gone unfortunately. If Return to Monkey Island manages to recapture some of that, I don't care if it's pixel art or whatever else...

I've been thinking about that quite a lot, but with Zelda games. I've come to the conclusion that the old games feel beautiful and mysterious and nostalgic because I played them as a child. I'm no longer a child, life is no longer the same. It's not necessarily worse, it's just fundamentally different. I will never blame Shigeru Miyamoto for that, it would be absurd.

Re: When I made another Monkey Island

#96

Post by emmanueloga_ » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #73

It's a bit ironic that he says he was not really a fan of Day of the Tentacle's "Chuck Jones" art style, when the screenshots for his upcoming Return to Monkey Island are all very specifically that 90's-infused Chuck Jones style - multiple skewed perspective lines in a scene, extreme avoidance of curves (rendered instead as polygonal outlines, so to speak). The art style for his new game is rather ironically nostalgi…

Reminds me a bit of games like guacamelee [1]. There are a bunch of new or newish games that use this "vector style" ...

I always thought this is used mostly out of convenience since it is cheaper/faster to animate with tools like Spine or Dragon Bones.

1: https://www.drinkboxstudios.com/games/guacamelee-super-turbo...

Re: When I made another Monkey Island

#97

Post by 867-5309 » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:53 PM UTC

rob74 wrote: post #28

darkwater wrote: post #12

When you read posts like this, and also the previous, linked one [1], you can clearly see that Ron is a smart and humble guy. I really dislike the fan mob that it's starting the hate because RTMI is not going to be a throwback and retro-game. > Monkey Island 1 and 2 weren't pixel art games. They were games using state-of- the-art tech and art. This is SO true, and as much as I loved those games, as much as I stopped…

What was special about the first two Monkey Island games (at least for me) was the atmosphere . I mean, just look at this screenshot: https://www.adventurecorner.de//uploads/images/games/monkey1... Parts 1 and 2 had this effect on me, with part 3 the magic was mostly gone unfortunately. If Return to Monkey Island manages to recapture some of that, I don't care if it's pixel art or whatever else...

you'd be hard pushed to recreate that in mspaint!

Re: When I made another Monkey Island

#98

Post by kemayo » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #79

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same with the sequels, they're making big jumps in the established lore, and they made the huge mistake of not actually fleshing out the story beforehand (like e.g. the MCU), leading to three disconnected movies full of attempted nostalgia and pushing merchandise; they made fanservice instead of good films.

Actually from what I heard they DID flesh out things. But then they made the serious error of hiring Rian Johnson AND giving him free rein with the direction of the movie. Rian Johnson already stated himself, he likes making divisive films. He also stated he doens`t like Star Wars... So he proceeded to ignore the plans that they had, and just do whatever he wanted. 1. He ignored several planned story arcs and just sh…

I do agree with you that Disney mismanaged the whole trilogy, and the fault lies with them. They very clearly went into it without any sort of plan or even a particular vision, deferring completely to whatever each director wanted to do. With minimal imposition of a plot outline, the whole thing could have gone much better, even while still leaving the individual directors to mostly decide how they got there.

To my mind, letting Abrams double-down on swerving back to his plot in episode 9 was their biggest management sin when it comes to creating a coherent plot arc. If they'd carried on with what 8 was setting up we'd have had ["nostalgia" => "twist" => "resolution"], and instead we were left with ["nostalgia" => "twist" => "ignore that! more nostalgia"]. The former could have worked out and won over those who disliked the Last Jedi twists, the latter just flopped unsatisfyingly. (A second-movie twist was always in the cards, given general fan sentiment about Empire.)

Disclaimer: I personally liked episode 8 the most of that trilogy, and it's the only one I'd bother to go rewatch. It has the best direction by far, along with the most striking visuals of the lot and most of the quotable lines. That said, I think my take on this holds up regardless of which side of the Last Jedi divide you fall on. :D

Re: When I made another Monkey Island

#99

Post by dleslie » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

SkeuomorphicBee wrote: post #60

darkwater wrote: post #12

When you read posts like this, and also the previous, linked one [1], you can clearly see that Ron is a smart and humble guy. I really dislike the fan mob that it's starting the hate because RTMI is not going to be a throwback and retro-game. > Monkey Island 1 and 2 weren't pixel art games. They were games using state-of- the-art tech and art. This is SO true, and as much as I loved those games, as much as I stopped…

> I really dislike the fan mob that it's starting the hate because RTMI is not going to be a throwback and retro-game. That is the same blow-back that George Lucas caught when he made the Star Wars prequels. When George Lucas made the original Star Wars he set out to make a state-of-art sci-fi movie, and in fact he pushed the state-of-art ahead by a huge leap in that movie. A decade or two later, with the evolution o…

Episode 1 is a terrible movie.

I tried watching it with my kids as a marathon of Star Wars for May the Fourth, and they became bored with the trade federation and Senate, and were annoyed by Jar Jar. The pod racing was the saving grace, in their eyes, but even it was only mildly amusing.

I turned it off when they left the room when the pod racing finished.

Re: When I made another Monkey Island

#100

Post by pier25 » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:57 PM UTC

We live in weird times.

Something amazing can happen (such as a new Monkey Island game) and there will always be an angry mob with pitchforks that will be very vocal about it on social media.

This probably was always the case, but the internet now serves as an amplifier of some sort of hype-based social feedback mechanism for ideas and opinions. This mechanism probably made sense 200,000+ years ago when groups were very small and it helped survival by promoting social cohesion. But today the internet connects billions of humans and it's a pretty toxic behavior.