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Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

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Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#91

Post by deaddodo »

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #78
onphonenow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. You can look at this from an economics standpoint as well. We have run out of FREE water. If all water use in CA cost anywhere close to residential water rates ($8 / 100 cubic feet) there would be no shortage. Even a small tax of $0.01 per gallon would be a start in this space. We have exploded population and if you look at water projects (that actually deal with supply) have not done the same over 50 years or w…

> in a desert Why do so many people choose to live in a desert? It makes very little economic sense. Feels like it will be destined for failure no matter what silicon valley tries to pay its grunts. Any expectation of having enough water for such a low price is laughably absurd. The population of this state is literally asking for these conditions - they are choosing to live there.

The vast majority of the population in California doesn't live in a desert. They live in chaparral, temperate coniferous forest and mountainous biomes/climates.

It's a moot point regardless as the California Water Plan is probably one of the most extensive in the world, beaten likely only by Israel. There is plenty of water for the populace and supporting services; and most of the populated desert regions (the IE particularly) are self-sufficient in water sources (Big Bear and Mt San Antonio supplying the aforementioned region).

The problem is water heavy industries (specific types of: ag, water bottling, manufacturing, etc) that benefit from the mild-temperate year round climate and strong soil, despite lack of sufficient natural water supply.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#92

Post by danaris »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #10

Blowing up the Cascade Range would probably solve this problem. The resulting rubble would also prove as extremely potent fertilizer. Thinking about it some more the idea seems so good that you almost have to do it. Not from the US but it would also seems like a US thing to do.

That's usually the kind of thing that supervillains suggest.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#93

Post by hedora »

api wrote: post #35
DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

Isn't there a third option that involves building serious infrastructure to pipe water down from the Northwest? Of course you can't build things in America anymore so that's probably off the table.

It'd probably be cheaper to just solve global warming.

Capturing 100% of carbon produced from burning gas would cost something like $1/gallon.

Much better to go extinct as a species than make our cars 20% more efficient, or somehow oust Putin.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#94

Post by imtringued »

bombcar wrote: post #23
bluGill wrote: post #20

In Iowa we have the opposite problem too much rain. We are in the last week to plant corn before seeing reduced yields.

We need the transcontinental pipeline to push water to where it needs to be. Or agriculture needs to move to where the water is.

This feels like a bad joke. Apparently Californian farmers have an innate right to water that overrides the water needs of every other state.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#95

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

> It will happen either way, mind you, the only question is whether it destroys the ability of everyone else to live there at all.

With how expensive California is - desalination will not make it uninhabitable for the average person.

It will be cost prohibitive to desalinate a gallon of water to grow one pistachio, though.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#96

Post by lokar »

onphonenow wrote: post #43
DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

Yep. You can look at this from an economics standpoint as well. We have run out of FREE water. If all water use in CA cost anywhere close to residential water rates ($8 / 100 cubic feet) there would be no shortage. Even a small tax of $0.01 per gallon would be a start in this space. We have exploded population and if you look at water projects (that actually deal with supply) have not done the same over 50 years or w…

The residents see it differently. They have been farming there for several generations and it's been mostly fine, the land is very productive when irrigated.

The fact that it all depends on a massive public subsidy (both cash and water) from the rest of the state is ignored by then. They focus on arguments like "stop dumping water in the ocean" - eg make all the river run dry before reaching the coast, and "this is where food comes from" - as if it's the only place in the country you could grow food, or that other nations/regions manage to grow plenty of food in a similar climate with a fraction of the water.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#97

Post by 1970-01-01 »

dahfizz wrote: post #27
bombcar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need the transcontinental pipeline to push water to where it needs to be. Or agriculture needs to move to where the water is.

I don't forsee a transcontinental water pipe going over well. I, for one, refuse to subsidize people who want to live in a dessert with my own water table. People should live in areas that can support human life.

Someone else had an interesting idea: We could set up a transcontinental pipeline to the desert, and in exchange we would receive their solar power.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#98

Post by Sharlin »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #66
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA water use is 50% environment, 40% agriculture, 10% residential. Maybe we should focus on reducing that 50%? It was nice and all when we had plenty of water to waste but it’s time to revisit those policies. https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/

Even within the already small residential slice, regulations are weird. When my parents lived in the LA area, they had a large swimming pool and an irrigated lawn but were required to have ultra low flush toilets. The amount of water saved by those toilets (which often required multiple flushes to empty the bowl of waste) paled in comparison with the government approved swimming pool and sprinkler systems.

Lawns in general are a truly horrendous idea. Lawns in a literal desert are probably one of the worst ideas that have ever became popular.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#99

Post by hedora »

subsubzero wrote: post #48

Like others mentioned the current drought/dry period is how the west has always been. What is an abnormality is the last 150 years and how wet it was. Multiple scientists are saying the same thing but nobody in politics/media are listening. Given no desalinization plants are being built or efforts made to trap more water runoff expect things to get alot worse. Also expect current CA politicans to blame everything on…

Ok, then why are all the redwoods dying, including ones way over 150 years old?

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#100

Post by ece »

deaddodo wrote: post #91
AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in a desert Why do so many people choose to live in a desert? It makes very little economic sense. Feels like it will be destined for failure no matter what silicon valley tries to pay its grunts. Any expectation of having enough water for such a low price is laughably absurd. The population of this state is literally asking for these conditions - they are choosing to live there.

The vast majority of the population in California doesn't live in a desert. They live in chaparral, temperate coniferous forest and mountainous biomes/climates. It's a moot point regardless as the California Water Plan is probably one of the most extensive in the world, beaten likely only by Israel. There is plenty of water for the populace and supporting services; and most of the populated desert regions (the IE par…

Why aren't there MPG-like standards for farming, and if we had such standards, how much water would be saved? Maybe there are irrigation standards and I just don't know.
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