Live data from Hacker News

UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

xlinks.co

91–100 of 247 posts

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#91

This is rad. > Alongside the consistent output from its solar panels and wind turbines, an onsite 20GWh/5GW battery facility provide sufficient storage to reliably deliver each and every day Four hour battery storage for renewables. The way of the future. > This “first of a kind” project will generate 10.5GW of zero carbon electricity from the sun and wind to deliver 3.6GW of reliable energy for an average of 20+ hou…

Isn’t 4 hours of battery storage much too low? How is that considered “reliable”? What am I missing?

Capacity factor, across 24 hours a 30% capacity factor works out to 7.2 hours at max output. Being able to 4 hours of max output is therefore 55% of the total energy produced in the average day.

Grid demand is also significantly higher in the daytime so that 4h of battery allows you to very closely match users demands over 24 hours or ramp up during peak demand and fall back on other sources at night.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#92
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah just hand over any territory anyone ever makes a weak claim to just to avoid conflict despite the wishes of the people who live there. Has your "Z" bumper sticker arrived in the mail yet?

Let’s conveniently forget that Gibraltar is actually territorially part of Spain, most essential facilities are provided by Spain, that a significant proportion of jobs necessary to it are held by Spaniard and that Gibraltar economy is due to it being a tax haven which would stop if it was part of Spain. Oversee territories are a shame on every countries that still hold them be it the UK or France.

> Let’s conveniently forget that Gibraltar is actually territorially part of Spain

it is most definitely not

it handed it over in the peace treaty that ended the war

> The Catholic King does hereby, for himself, his heirs and successors, yield to the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging; and he gives up the said propriety to be held and enjoyed absolutely with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever.

full text here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Peace_and_Friendship_Treaty_o...

> Oversee territories are a shame on every countries that still hold them be it the UK or France.

meanwhile Spain has two enclaves of the exact same type of in Morocco, Ceuta and Melilla

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#93
post #88
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU wants the UK to be subservient to the Commission for ideological, political and economic reasons. The UK doesn't want to be back in that situation. What a load of Brexiteer crap. The UK was never subservient, they were among the top decision makers and powers in the EU. Brexit UK wants to have its cake and eat it too and is simply impossible. You can't be independent from the EU on trade and power simply bec…

Stop being so adverserial. Parent hasn't stated any pro-brexit sentiment so just assume they're arguing in good faith. The whole idea of the EU is that all nations in it are subservient to the commission. We like it that way because that makes the collaboration more rational and it makes the rising tide lift all the boats. Wether you agree with it or not, the idea of the Brexit is that the UK can be strong without th…

This is an absolutely valueless comment, so I apologise: but I just wanted to thank you for writing one of most sincerely level-headed responses I've seen in relation to Brexit, and from someone 'over the fence' at that.

I aspire to be as considerate and reasonable in my dialogue on the subject, as much as I'd like it to go away (much like most Europeans, I guess!) :)

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#94
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brexit isn't mentioned anywhere and the physics of it would be the same regardless of the EU existing or not. The reason to go direct to Morocco are that transmission through regular AC grids would lose virtually all the power before it gets anywhere near the UK. 10GW is a hell of a load and you can't just pretend a grid is a bathtub at these scales. But as you brought it up, even if there was a semi-conductor breakt…

> The EU wants the UK to be subservient to the Commission for ideological, political and economic reasons. The UK doesn't want to be back in that situation. What a load of Brexiteer crap. The UK was never subservient, they were among the top decision makers and powers in the EU. Brexit UK wants to have its cake and eat it too and is simply impossible. You can't be independent from the EU on trade and power simply bec…

The UK had to implement EU decisions and laws, including those the government and voters directly disagreed with. That is what subservient means, in this context.

The fish debacle ( the UK refusing to license EU-based ships).

There are lots of licensed EU fishing vessels. Note that Jersey isn't actually a part of the UK, technically it's a Crown Dependency. Anyway. The full story of the dispute is much more complicated than that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Jersey_dispute

Summary:

- After Brexit an amnesty period was agreed before the new fishing permissions were enforced on UK/Jersey territorial waters.

- French fishermen reacted by adopting unsustainable fishing techniques like aggressive trawling. Basically trying to extract as much marine wealth as possible before they were restricted. "Young accused French trawlers of "breaking the spirit of the amnesty" and that due to recent dredging by French trawlers that Jersey's marine ecology "won’t take this for much longer and, if it goes on, we will have to close the area off for years". This hadn't been anticipated in the agreement and appears to have poisoned relations from the get-go.

- The agreement involved granting licenses to fishermen who had been fishing there previously and could evidence that. The French authorities weren't submitting valid evidence to the Jersey authorities (blaming bureaucratic screwups like lost documents).

- Because the evidence wasn't meeting the requirements, licenses weren't always being issued quickly.

So far, ordinary bureaucracy. It should have never really reached public attention at all, as it could have been sorted out between the local authorities. Unfortunately what followed was this:

1. Blockades of Jersey harbor by the French fishermen, with the French government doing nothing.

2. French boats were repeatedly caught illegally fishing, claiming they'd been told by the French government they could fish wherever they wanted. See the trawling problems above.

3. Shortly after, the French government banned Jersey fishermen from landing fish in France. No justification was given. This was in violation of the agreement and Jersey thus said it'd appeal to the EU Commission. That was not only ignored but the French simply escalated the ban to include all freight movements, again, in plain violation of the agreements.

4. The French government then escalated again and threatened multiple times to cut off Jersey's electricity supply in retaliation.

From the UK's perspective this was all well out of proportion to the scale of the problem. Also it involved unilateral violations of the agreement by France, no workable suggestions for how to do things better and after that an MEP argued that it should be escalated to full blown trade sanctions. Without passing judgement on which side was "right" in this dispute it's obvious why the UK would want to diversity energy supplies away from the EU.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#95

UK is currently generating 30GW from all sources[1], so 10GW is a third of the national power requirement. Germany has just had a hard lesson in having significant energy dependency on Russia. Morocco is UK's 61st largest trading partner[2]. Morocco isn't Russia, but handing your life support to a distant and culturally different country in a less stable world region with limited history of partnership (European colo…

> handing your life support to a distant and culturally different country

As horrible as it sounds, Morocco isn't a nuclear power and would be crushed in an afternoon by UK armed forces while western media across the planet creates a hundred different justifications and the world's diplomats send their congratulations for neutralising the energy terrorists because they couldn't care less what happens to them.

This is a completely different situation wrt to Germany Russia

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, if we're assuming that they'll charge during the day to discharge at full power at night, it won't cover all of overnight use, but with the current composition of grids typically it's what you need to cover after sundown until most go to sleep (and energy use reduces). A project like this doesn't need to reduce base load, but there surely needs to be renewable (or nuclear) energy projects to replace base load…

Interesting, but does this assume Morocco won’t have a cloudy week or something (I understand that Morocco’s climate is almost always sunny, but even still)? I always assumed the threshold for “reliable renewable energy” began at a week’s worth of storage.

Not that I know anything about this, but isn't it the job of "the grid" to make sure all sources of energy combined can provide the necessary power at all times? No individual power source is ever completely reliable.

Please forgive my naive question. I have exactly zero relevant expertise.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#97
Oh, nice, so in case of wars a cheap submarine can just put a small and cheap charge deep in the sea and boom, 10GWp power are out of the UK national grid. How nice.

My fellow humans remember a thing: a national grid is not national because of politics but because a such critical part of a country infra it's better to be self-sufficient under nation borders and hopefully self-sufficient inside those borders even in case of major attacks (translated, not few big power plants, but many small and a distribution network designed to survive significant damages).

We, westerners have had the best industry and technology in the world, now for some neoliberals economic devastating ideas we pull it apart outsourcing anything because that's pay back, in thin air, well, and now we see a new world power, China, arise and we see our power wane. How much damage we want to take before annihilating with lifelong court rulings against those economy-driven society? We really want to wait till being completely lost?

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#98

UK is currently generating 30GW from all sources[1], so 10GW is a third of the national power requirement. Germany has just had a hard lesson in having significant energy dependency on Russia. Morocco is UK's 61st largest trading partner[2]. Morocco isn't Russia, but handing your life support to a distant and culturally different country in a less stable world region with limited history of partnership (European colo…

> Germany has just had a hard lesson in having significant energy dependency on Russia.

The UK can't quit Russian oil, coal, and gas any faster than Germany - that should teach you a lesson.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#99
post #56

This is rad. > Alongside the consistent output from its solar panels and wind turbines, an onsite 20GWh/5GW battery facility provide sufficient storage to reliably deliver each and every day Four hour battery storage for renewables. The way of the future. > This “first of a kind” project will generate 10.5GW of zero carbon electricity from the sun and wind to deliver 3.6GW of reliable energy for an average of 20+ hou…

> Four hour battery storage for renewables. The way of the future. Only the beginning of the way i hope. 4 hours isn't even close to being enough for "reliable" electricity generation.

4 hours is solidly in the middle of what is needed for the daily peak load management tier of the energy storage problem [1], which is how we experience electricity "reliability" on a day to day basis, and it is the upper end of what is economical for lithium ion batteries.

Beyond that, other technologies (pumped hydro, perhaps hydrogen electrolysis) are more economical.

1. https://storagewiki.epri.com/index.php/Energy_Storage_101/Te...

Post reply on HN