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Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#91
I'm not sure if you're pushing back on cryptocurrency in general and using blockchain as proxy or if you're actually pushing back against blockchain as a technology buzzword that is being used by businesses.

In the case it's digital currency: Saying blockchain technology is nothing more a distributed database is like saying TCP/IP is nothing more than flipping voltages on a wire. It misses the point of what the technology can be used for.

Blockchain technology is the underylying mechanism for digital currency. Digital currency in the short term will allow less friction for online payments and has the potential to allow for easier banking options and a unifying global currency in the long term.

For places that have a strong banking system, the need for digital currency isn't so apparent. For places that have failing banking infrastructure or are building new banking infrastructure, digital currency is an attractive option as we're steadily becoming more connected and "wired".

There's a lot of hype, much of which is unwarranted, but behind that hype is the realization that digital currency and the implications of implementing it worldwide and having it widely available will have far reaching consequences for many aspects of our digital lives.

In the case you're talking about blockchain without the digital currency aspect then I agree with you to a certain extent. My generous read on the situation is that businesses want to modernize their supply chain infrastructure and are looking for some standard to adopt that will provide them with guidance and "best practices". This could allow them to use something that can be implemented and maintained with lower costs and potentially even be used for outside audits and federation/communication with other entities.

Personally, I think this is more akin to the Java/XML "craze". XML was adopted as a sort of standard but the underlying reason wasn't that XML was any panacea, it just happened to be the technology that was in vogue for businesses and was an excuse to modernize/digitize their infrastructure. The move to digitize data instead of either having a hap-hazard scheme or using paper was the motivation, not that XML was any great technology. Using XML also created it's own hap-hazard data schema realizations and, in the end, JSON provides more of the spirit of what XML promised but the move from pre-digitization to post-digitization provided such a strong incentive that it didn't really matter.

In other words, we're seeing businesses try to modernize different aspects of logistics. The current trend is blockchain because it provides enough key words that they can rally around it. The motivation, in my opinion, is more that they want to modernize/digitize their supply chain so they're looking for something/anything that provides guidance, standards or other infrastructure to that effect.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#92
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree that tamper proof log is very useful, but I don't believe that it is something you can't achieve using traditional database tech. I have a question for you that can short-circuit our discussion. You claim that the value is "so obvious" to you, why then one decade in there isn't one serious application of blockchain in the real world (not even in the dark web with early adpaters)? I mean a workflow that has…

Selling illicit goods seems to have been transformed by Bitcoin.

This can be a good thing. Just because a government prohibits something doesn't mean it is bad.

(Yes, now we can devolve into a discussion about what "bad" means.)

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#94
post #59
post #47

Blockchains are excellent for logging that uses trustable peer participation, distributed append, and tamper resistance. For example, each peer can add their own chain links, and also see all the chain links added by other peers, and also be sure that the log hasn't been corrupted by any of the peers. Some examples IMHO are logs of participation (e.g. voting), agreements (e.g. contracts), exchange (e.g. payments), an…

"Blockchains are excellent for logging with peer participation, distributed append, and tamper resistance. For example, each peer can add their own chain links, and also see all the chain links added by other peers, and also be sure that the log hasn't been corrupted by any of the peers." This sounds very close to a git repository, which Linus wrote using only SHA libraries.

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Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#95
post #69

You say you've done research, i'm curious how you did the research? The standard go to reference from people who don't like crypto is now is a 2 hour video that makes zero effort to look for any good. It's not alone, there are hundreds of videos that make bad faith effort to "investigate" crypto. On the progressive left, for some reason it is becoming part of their culture to hate crypto (which is ironic considering…

How is it a different experience? How is it actually amazing? I don't want you to enumerate the ways crypto is useful, I want you to give me one or two concrete use cases that aren't money laundering or buying illegal things.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#96
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide an example of any database that is tamper resistant. As a DevOps engineer I have setup and configured many different databases, I have yet to come across any that someone with admin credentials (which you always need at one least of), didn’t have the ultimate ability to tamper and do anything they will to database.

even simpler than database technology. A git repository is tamper resistant.

Not under SHA-1 it isn't.

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#98
post #60

The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party Other proposed applications are mostly dumb / misguided, like immutable storage, social network posts, etc, these can be done with hashing or digital signatures alone If you have a better way to avoid double spending than blockchain folks woukd get very excited. Traditional database can’t do that (requires a trusted party)

>The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party That is most accurate description of blockchain I have read. Unfortunately, the mechanism for that (Proof-of-work) is slow, expensive and planet destroying at scale. And while we may remove a trust provider third party, we aren't getting rid of centralization with blockchain anyway.

> That is most accurate description of blockchain I have read.

It might interest you to know then that the short, digestible 8 page whitepaper on Bitcoin, which originally described the blockchain, specifically used this definition. It's the most accurate because it is what a blockchain was designed for. I recommend giving it a read and ignoring any project which doesn't follow its core tenants.

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?

#99
BTC is nice tech on the paper (solving the consensus problem in a decentralised way) but it's kinda slow and unpractical for real world usage. If it's meant to be used only by some banks while you do other transactions off chains - then you reintroduce trust and lose the benefits.

The value is all baseless speculation and hoping a central government won't class it as illegal once they get to do their own "crypto" to control their citizens better.

The main value in BTC is that it's at the moment less regulated than the financial mess we have in the standard market.

I think a better model would be to have tons of small private banks without a central banks and use a currency 100% backed by a basket of goods of prime necessity (wood, wheat, iron, gold).

That said, I hope will somehow they will succeed in replacing central banks and I hope some of the revolutionaries who got rich with crypto will topple governments and create a decentralised society without (or better - with less) central points of failures.

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