U.S. forgives 40k student loans • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#91

Post by branon » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

endtime wrote: post #54

_moof wrote: post #27

Please, please, please take note before commenting: These are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 (fifteen years ago), which eliminates your remaining debt after you've made ten years of payments while working in the public sector (government or non-profit). This has nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness.

That's where the 40,000 in the headline comes from. But the article also says this: > Several thousand borrowers with older loans will also receive forgiveness through income-driven repayment (IDR) forgiveness, plus another 3.6 million borrowers will receive at least three years of additional credit toward IDR forgiveness, the Education Department said in a statement.

Does this mean full-time public service workers with pre-PSLF loans, or are the feds debating broadening the scope of loan forgiveness to include persons in other careers as well?

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#92

Post by mrep » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #41

tintor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is not giving out loans at all necessarily better? Stop giving out loans, and higher education becomes even more elitist and out of reach.

No. Tuitions will drop like a rock.

Maybe for the bottom schools but there are enough rich parents to pay/cosign a loan for like the top 50 schools and I highly doubt they would reduce tuition/spending and risk hurting their rankings.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#93

Post by bee_rider » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #32

mc32 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just stop guaranteeing them, let students default on them. All these guaranteed loans that can't be discharged allows academic institutions to ratchet up the price. Let them calculate risk and price them accordingly.

The guarantee is the only reason the loans are made. Otherwise, you're lending a lot of money to someone with no income and no assets, and no one will want to make that loan.

And then the colleges will have to reduce prices or go out of business.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#94

Post by InitialBP » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #49

loourr wrote: post #12

It's crazy to cancel student loans and still keep issuing the exact same loans. If we believe the loans are unjust then the government should stop handing them out as the very first step.

And also reimburse the people who sacrificed to pay theirs off or avoid them in the first place. I’d donate my reimbursement if they did, but of course they won’t.

Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to.

Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes

Do some people drop out of school because it's too hard or because of other circumstances (unexpected baby, financial hardship, etc) - Yes

Do those people who either have made bad decisions, had less fortunate circumstances than others, or a combination of both deserve to live under a mountain of debt for the rest of their life? - No

One other thing people don't consider is that Most 18 year olds don't have a good grasp on money or what they want to do in general and in my hometown (poor county in WV) there was a TON of pressure to go to college if you didn't know what you want to do. Kids don't know better to not get into debt for a degree because everyone tells them not to worry about it. There is a serious problem with financial education in the US.

You can help out people who made a bad decision or had bad luck without being so uptight about how everything has to be complete "fair". The world isn't fair from the time we're born till the time we die.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#95

Post by henriquez » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

cr__ wrote: post #66

henriquez wrote: post #9

Can Biden forgive my mortgage while he's at it? Why should I be in debt for 30 years, it's very inconvenient. Not everyone has the money to get a fancy university education, even with loans and other financial assistance, so we should be cancelling debt across the board. We should nationalize the banks and print money until all the debt is gone. Or it's racist.

He probably won’t forgive your mortgage but he (and virtually every politician of either party) will give you plenty of free money through the continuation of all the regressive policies that favor property owners to prop up the economy via the “property values always go up!” con game. So, I am not sure that you need to feel too aggrieved. Cheers!

Nah I don't feel too aggrieved. At the rate they're printing money they'll inflate away everyone's debt in no time at all.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#96

Post by Barrin92 » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #26

I know every European seems to ask this of every American but what is the resistance to a welfare state? if you look at a government as investing in its citizens like a VC fund, then providing education and medical care is sensible, and some will turn out fine and others will be Bezos and then you can get your investment back via tax. I am honestly trying to avoid the flame war here - but I do it know how else to fra…

This framing is on its head because America already has a very generous welfare state and hands out money much more liberally than many European states. Including in education which is why there's such an inflation in education cost. The US even has a more progressive taxation system than most European countries.

In Europe education is largely public and thus its subject to budgetary concerns. It's why Germans go to vocational training and have half as many people in tertiary education, there's no degree or cost inflation.

People in the US who aim for European policies need to understand that it consists not of liberal fiscal policy but of robust public services provided by and largely paid for by the middle and working class.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#97

Post by vnchr » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #26

I know every European seems to ask this of every American but what is the resistance to a welfare state? if you look at a government as investing in its citizens like a VC fund, then providing education and medical care is sensible, and some will turn out fine and others will be Bezos and then you can get your investment back via tax. I am honestly trying to avoid the flame war here - but I do it know how else to fra…

Personally, I’m concerned about our government’s track record of mismanagement and infighting that is detached from the needs of the people. Without that implicit trust, giving them more power is a general concern. Speaking geopolitically, the US military is the most powerful force in history including present day and our economy is the largest globally, which makes us coveted by those who seek to wield power for their own benefit, more so than your average Europe country. If the US were to fall to tyranny, that’d put everyone else at risk. Again, less of that risk with your average European country.

If I lived somewhere like Sweden where there is heavy taxation with equally heavy social benefits, I’d probably be fine with the arrangement and wouldn’t fight it. Sounds nice.

I’m not trying to equate welfare with tyranny, of course. The use of bread and circuses has been associated with the downfall of empires to sway public opinion with a short term good at a long term cost. If you start disrupting our major economic systems like that, we’re more likely to dissolve and those with power would use that weakening to their advantage.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#98

Post by musicale » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

dan_quixote wrote: post #45

glial wrote: post #5

I wish they'd just make the interest on existing federal loans 0 and be done with it.

Sounds ideal in principle (principal?), but low interest/risk on student loans is what allowed tuition to inflate well beyond general inflation in the last several decades.

It was probably a mistake for the government to provide the funds and low interest rates and for private banks to reap the profits.

And of course universities continue to raise tuition and fees with complete impunity.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#99

Post by henriquez » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #35

henriquez wrote: post #9

Can Biden forgive my mortgage while he's at it? Why should I be in debt for 30 years, it's very inconvenient. Not everyone has the money to get a fancy university education, even with loans and other financial assistance, so we should be cancelling debt across the board. We should nationalize the banks and print money until all the debt is gone. Or it's racist.

We did print money, multiple times over the last two recessions. Guess who got the money? Why are you angry at a small number of poor students?

I'm not angry at students, I think everyone should have their debt forgiven. I think banks should be canceled to provide equity.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#100

Post by throwawayboise » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:25 PM UTC

honksillet wrote: post #46

abnry wrote: post #17

Now universities can continue to raise tuition and pay the administrative class even more. Uncle Sam has shown they'll pay it on his dime.

End federal involvement in student loan and allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy. Problem solved.

This is the answer. Lenders would then have to do proper qualification on borrowers, would be more limited in their lending, and this would put downward pressure on tuition.