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Netlify Edge Functions: A new serverless runtime powered by Deno

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Re: Netlify Edge Functions: A new serverless runtime powered by Deno

#91

Post by forty »

paulgb wrote: post #52
forty wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything running JS comes with some TS support, you just have to transpile it before releasing :) I'm not sure why shipping the transpiler on the production server rather than keeping it in your CI is a good idea, but I think that's what Deno is doing.

> I'm not sure why shipping the transpiler on the production server rather than keeping it in your CI is a good idea, but I think that's what Deno is doing. IMHO, the decoupling of build step and runtime step in JavaScript was a terrible mistake. I've wasted hours just trying to find tsconfig settings that are compatible with the other parts I'm using. Shipping a transpiler with a known-good configuration alongside t…

I understand that it might be a problem for browser target, but nodejs is pretty easy to target (at least I never had anyissue).

Also speaking of wild west, Deno did not even manage to have their TS be the same as everyone else, as apparently they do import with .ts file extension, while everyone else is using .js. I feel like this would be creating more mess than fixing anything...

Re: Netlify Edge Functions: A new serverless runtime powered by Deno

#92

Post by paulgb »

atoav wrote: post #89
paulgb wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead it seems like a buzzword (?) for a weirdly niche way of running things that someone with a 4 Euro/Month nginx instance that hosts 10 websites will probably never understand. To me, serverless means that I as the developer don't have to do ongoing server maintenance work. A 4 Euro/month setup sounds great, until you find out that you never enabled log rotation and filled up the disk space, or your certificat…

But where does the code run physically? Of course on a server, otherwise it wouldn't be reachable from the net. But who maintains those servers? Is there some contract with those who maintain it? In my experience if you run things professionally you have to set up log rotation purely for legal reasons anyways. Is serverless without logs? Or how would you there ensure to log privacy relevant data only for the legally…

> In my experience if you run things professionally you have to set up log rotation purely for legal reasons anyways. Is serverless without logs? Or how would you there ensure to log privacy relevant data only for the legally allowed periods?

AFAIK the big providers use log rotation by default. I just know that I've been running some low-stakes serverless projects for years and have always been able to access recent logs, and never worried about disk space. Privacy laws is a good point I hadn't thought of (in the context of these projects), though.

> How do you do SSL on serverless

In the case of Netlify, they already manage the certificate if you point your domain at them and click a button, so it works automatically with their functions. Same story with Cloudflare. AWS and Google make you jump through a few more hoops, or you can host the endpoint from one of their domains and piggyback on their certificate.

I imagine the security practices of all four would hold up to the security practices of a 4 Euro / month VPS host.

Re: Netlify Edge Functions: A new serverless runtime powered by Deno

#93

Post by teaearlgraycold »

patches11 wrote: post #62
dbbk wrote: post #36

I would love to jump over to something like Vercel or Netlify Edge, but maddeningly none of these platforms give you control over the cache key. I have pages that are server-side rendered with Cache-Control headers, but because our visitors come with unique tracking params on the end of their URL (e.g. from Mailchimp or Branch), we would essentially have no cache hits. It seems the only way to have control over this…

Why don't you just link to an API route, consume the tracking params, set a cookie, and redirect to a statically rendered page?

Time to first paint

Re: Netlify Edge Functions: A new serverless runtime powered by Deno

#94

Post by phphphphp »

TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #46

Netlify pricing has always been confusing to me, but I'm not entirely sure why. I guess I'm more accustomed to pay-as-you-go in this space (CFW) than tiered plans (Netlify bundles their features into starter/pro/business). It seems that the free plan is 3M invocations/mo, starter is 15M/mo, and business is 150M/mo, but there aren't any ways to increase those limits (business says to contact them for higher limits). P…

I have no special insight into Netlify, so this is (educated) speculation: there's an important difference between pay-as-you-go compute providers, like AWS, and Netlify: Netlify is a platform, their value is not derived from the workloads they process, so charging (or not charging) based on compute doesn't align with their value proposition. The value of Netlify is that it's an end to end platform, taking a business from having some code to having a live website, where compute is just one component of the entire value proposition.

The marginal cost of a request is probably negligible, hence the tens of millions of requests included, but there is a cost associated with each user making use of their platform because it includes a lot more than just compute, and that's the value they're charging for.

I think if you're looking for a compute provider that offers pay as you go billing in order to minimise your costs, then Netlify probably isn't the platform for you, and you'd be better off using their service provider directly (in this case, Deno, but many Netlify alternatives use Lambda, Cloudflare Workers etc.).

Re: Netlify Edge Functions: A new serverless runtime powered by Deno

#95

Post by adam_arthur »

lewisjoe wrote: post #5

This is great news. I'm really rooting for a successful trend of Serverless runtimes, mainly as a weapon against rising cloud deployment costs. While the general trend today is to back the serverless environment with Javascript runtimes (Cloudflare runs its edge on top of V8, Netlify uses deno, most other serverless runtimes use nodejs), I'm optimistic that WebAssembly will take over this space eventually, for a bunc…

Also a common spec for serverless is badly needed. Serverless code should be portable between different cloud providers, otherwise there's vendor lock in and much greater opportunity to price gouge.

Anybody know if a common API for serverless components is being worked on?

Re: Netlify Edge Functions: A new serverless runtime powered by Deno

#96

Post by gardnr »

adam_arthur wrote: post #95
lewisjoe wrote: post #5

This is great news. I'm really rooting for a successful trend of Serverless runtimes, mainly as a weapon against rising cloud deployment costs. While the general trend today is to back the serverless environment with Javascript runtimes (Cloudflare runs its edge on top of V8, Netlify uses deno, most other serverless runtimes use nodejs), I'm optimistic that WebAssembly will take over this space eventually, for a bunc…

Also a common spec for serverless is badly needed. Serverless code should be portable between different cloud providers, otherwise there's vendor lock in and much greater opportunity to price gouge. Anybody know if a common API for serverless components is being worked on?

There's the serverless framework which is easy to use and there is terraform which is more powerful.

Relevant: https://xkcd.com/927/

Re: Netlify Edge Functions: A new serverless runtime powered by Deno

#97

Post by phphphphp »

adam_arthur wrote: post #95
lewisjoe wrote: post #5

This is great news. I'm really rooting for a successful trend of Serverless runtimes, mainly as a weapon against rising cloud deployment costs. While the general trend today is to back the serverless environment with Javascript runtimes (Cloudflare runs its edge on top of V8, Netlify uses deno, most other serverless runtimes use nodejs), I'm optimistic that WebAssembly will take over this space eventually, for a bunc…

Also a common spec for serverless is badly needed. Serverless code should be portable between different cloud providers, otherwise there's vendor lock in and much greater opportunity to price gouge. Anybody know if a common API for serverless components is being worked on?

Check out knative, it’s used for Google Cloud Run: https://knative.dev/docs/

Re: Netlify Edge Functions: A new serverless runtime powered by Deno

#98

Post by deckard1 »

paulgb wrote: post #72
atoav wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sought to unserstand "serverless" but every deployment diagram I have ever seen show things that look an aweful lot like they run on... servers? Maybe I don't get the idea (and honestly I was too lazy to put in the legwork), but when I hear something like "serverless" I imagine some p2p javascript federated decentralized beast where the shared state is stored through magic and tricks with the users clients and ther…

> Instead it seems like a buzzword (?) for a weirdly niche way of running things that someone with a 4 Euro/Month nginx instance that hosts 10 websites will probably never understand. To me, serverless means that I as the developer don't have to do ongoing server maintenance work. A 4 Euro/month setup sounds great, until you find out that you never enabled log rotation and filled up the disk space, or your certificat…

> but should work the same at the infrastructure layer in a year

Serious doubt, there. This brave new world seems to be entirely focused on making it an incredibly fragile world with your code scattered to the winds. It's bad enough dealing with library semver breakages in a monolithic app. I can't imagine tracking a dozen serverless functions running god-knows-where with whatever resources some cloud service decides to allocate for you today. Billing is opaque as a black hole. Which I'm sure is more a feature than a bug, for these cloud providers.

> and auto-scaling happens automatically.

wheeze

Re: Netlify Edge Functions: A new serverless runtime powered by Deno

#100

Post by huijzer »

gardnr wrote: post #96
adam_arthur wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a common spec for serverless is badly needed. Serverless code should be portable between different cloud providers, otherwise there's vendor lock in and much greater opportunity to price gouge. Anybody know if a common API for serverless components is being worked on?

There's the serverless framework which is easy to use and there is terraform which is more powerful. Relevant: https://xkcd.com/927/

It doesn’t avoid vendor lock-in. Instead of a cloud provider, it is now Terraform.
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