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Hello V-Lang

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Re: Hello V-Lang

#91

Post by cyber_kinetist »

amedvednikov wrote: post #32
kgeist wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, I may be wrong. I think I will try V some day to see it for myself (maybe I'll write an article about my findings). As you are the author of the language, can you comment on what is the state of the auto-free system? How is memory management implemented?

I don't think it's correct making claims like "it's a toy language" and "crashes on trivial input" without actually trying it out. You don't need an article to clone the repo, build the language in Autofree works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmB8ea8uLsM But it's not finished yet. We saw a better performance with a GC (due to all the extra copying autofree has to do), and made it the default. I've always been anti…

Is all the extra copying that autofree has to do related to the lack of move semantics in the language? Nim had to introduce a bunch of new language constructs/semantics to support their ORC backend, which is the solution that’s similar to yours. (See https://nim-lang.org/docs/destructors.html.) I expected V to move in the same direction but hadn’t found any discussion of move semantics in the docs so I found it strange.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#93

Post by Ristovski »

bheadmaster wrote: post #20

Here are the summarized V features for anyone who dislikes salestalk: - small binaries and fast compilation - cross-platform support - cross-compilation - cross-platform drawing library (GDI+/Cocoa Drawing, OpenGL) - native GUI toolkits (V-UI) - value types - auto-free engine that adds necessary free() commands - C transpilation (both ways, allegedly emits human-readable C) - C foreign function interface ("V can call…

I am still wondering why Volt, the native desktop client for Slack/Discord et al only supports MacOS when V boasts about cross-platform support and cross-compilation.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#94

Post by jokethrowaway »

sergiotapia wrote: post #81
amedvednikov wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good find, a pretty specific issue resulting in an unhandled error. That's why the language is not 1.0 yet :) Such cases are quickly picked up and fixed by the team. This one is already being worked on and will be fixed this week. 300+ contributors.

FWIW bro I enjoy that you are building something so ambitious and making progress despite the unwarranted hate. I have no idea why you bring out so many visceral trolls. Can someone share why this guy and vlang are so hated? It seems like he is ironing out the kinks even years after the hate keeps piling on. He keeps this up he's going to win.

It's a communication problem.

Looking at the homepage and the projects it feels like everything is ready and, if the claims were true, it would be the most ground breaking language of the last decades. When you go to look at the code or try to run something you find out: - some things are still closed source - some are broken - some are wins from C

It's a great strategy for collecting a check from VCs and I wish the author the best of luck, but it won't fly with developers.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#95

Post by kgeist »

sergiotapia wrote: post #81
amedvednikov wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good find, a pretty specific issue resulting in an unhandled error. That's why the language is not 1.0 yet :) Such cases are quickly picked up and fixed by the team. This one is already being worked on and will be fixed this week. 300+ contributors.

FWIW bro I enjoy that you are building something so ambitious and making progress despite the unwarranted hate. I have no idea why you bring out so many visceral trolls. Can someone share why this guy and vlang are so hated? It seems like he is ironing out the kinks even years after the hate keeps piling on. He keeps this up he's going to win.

I applaud Alexander's efforts, but the hate is somewhat warranted, because they make misleading claims such as having "innovative memory management" when in fact they merely use Boehm GC. All the hate could be entirely avoided if their "marketing material" was a little more honest and humble.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#96

Post by ReleaseCandidat »

WithinReason wrote: post #87
ReleaseCandidat wrote: post #62

Interesting definition of 'pure functions': Pure functions by default V functions are pure by default, meaning that their return values are a function of their arguments only, and their evaluation has no side effects (besides I/O). https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#pure-func...

You mean the "besides I/O" part?

Yes. A 'system language' with pure functions would be, well, unusual.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#97

Post by Rochus »

gus_massa wrote: post #80
Rochus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the author just likes to implement programming languages and sets high goals. All those who have experience with this know that it is a lot of work. Apparently, the author has been working on this for many years and has achieved a lot. I recently bought the Packt book; what is not clear to me at the moment is what are the specific innovations over the other already established languages. Thus, it would be helpf…

> sets high goals The problem is that in the initial releases the " high goals " were listed as " features " of the language, not as planed improvements of the initial implementation. So even now when I read a list like in the article, I'm not sure which are already implemented and which are just wishes, but after the initial bad impression I'm not bother to check.

Problem? Is the communication not up to the author? And shouldn't people rather help out than just make demands on an open source project?

Re: Hello V-Lang

#98

Post by agumonkey »

Rochus wrote: post #97
gus_massa wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sets high goals The problem is that in the initial releases the " high goals " were listed as " features " of the language, not as planed improvements of the initial implementation. So even now when I read a list like in the article, I'm not sure which are already implemented and which are just wishes, but after the initial bad impression I'm not bother to check.

Problem? Is the communication not up to the author? And shouldn't people rather help out than just make demands on an open source project?

That is absurd. He's not saying "I have an idea, and with a bit of help we might reach extraordinary numbers", he claims "better faster leaner than everybody else".

Re: Hello V-Lang

#99

Post by Normille »

amedvednikov wrote: post #9
Normille wrote: post #2

What a piss-poor excuse for an article! Reads like a press release; all puff and no down sides. Anyone with any familiarity with the V project will know it's been mired in controversy from day 1, thanks to the [often hyperbolic] claims of its inventor. All of which seems to have passed the author of this article by, as he just gushingly repeats them unquestioningly. Mind you, he does describe V as "all new", so maybe…

Can you list the hyperbolic claims here please?

Well, for a start there's the "Translating DOOM from C to V and building it in 0.7 seconds" which is still on your front page. In spite of being a 'WIP' for as long as I can remember.

Then there's; vweb, vorum, volt and ved [all of which feature prominently on the front page too] which have been little more than alpha quality proofs of concept for a similarly long time.

Don't get me wrong; I was actually interested in V when I first heard about it a few years back. And I was prepared for there to be a lot of 'WIP' since the language was so new. But I lost interest as the years passed and nothing more polished ever seemed to emerge.

In fact the whole ethos of the V community seems to be to take the maxim "Move fast and break stuff" and stretch it to breaking point. Instead of anything actually being worked on, polished and finished, you just keep throwing out new headline grabbing 'projects' which, as per the examples above are barely functional and seem to be abandoned almost as soon as they are announced. One week it'll be a new game engine [naturally, because it's V, better, stronger faster than anything already out there], the next week a web framework [better, stronger, faster...etc], the week after that it'll be a new 3D engine [better, stronger, faster...]

I even remember a while back someone[s] in the V community announced they were building an OS in V. [presumably better, stronger, faster than Linux, OSX, Windows, etc]

That's why you get so much negative press. It's not because people want to hate V. A hell of a lot of people [especially in the HN demographic] were genuinely interested in the project. But the endless hyperbole just ends up making you sound like a snake oil salesman and your crowd loses interest and drifts away.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#100

Post by ylluminate »

bheadmaster wrote: post #53
amedvednikov wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it says right there: Note: right now autofree is hidden behind the -autofree flag. It will be enabled by default in V 0.3. Using gc means it's a toy language? Got you.

A toy language is a term for a computer programming language that is not considered to fulfill the robustness or completeness requirement of a computer programming language.

Then by this definition and by example of what has been done with V so far, it's definitely no "toy language."
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