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Back to India

yugal.me

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Re: Back to India

#91

Post by Dharmakirti »

nindalf wrote: post #70
rognjen wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd benefit the discussion in a forum filled with non-Indians if you explained what he meant. But I assume it's a caste-thing...

It would benefit the non Indians, certainly. And it’d also get me flagged. But what the hell, I’ll say it. OP is an upper caste male. You won’t see many “India is doing great! I’m heading back there!” posts from Indian women or Indian Muslims or Indian Dalits. That’s what I meant. I’m similar to the OP in that I’m an upper caste male as well. The difference between me and him is that I can understand and empathise wi…

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There are tons of posts by Indian women, Muslims and Dalits that show that they’re also ascendant, but if you only look at -ve aspects you will always find dirt.

I grew up in rural area and I’m not a savarna. I studied in Govt institutions and most of my non-Savarna batch mates are doing just fine. We don’t need savarna apologists to tell us what is the ground reality.

Re: Back to India

#92

Post by amtamt »

"Before I came to America, I thought the streets were paved in gold. When I came here I learnt three things: The streets were not paved in gold, the streets weren't paved, and that I was expected to pave them.", is often shared in context on American dream. No place is perfect, but grass is always greener on the other end.

Re: Back to India

#93

Post by nindalf »

Dharmakirti wrote: post #87
nindalf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is obtuse. Sure, technically Jain is not a caste, but all Jains and Parsees are considered equivalent to Hindu upper castes. No one will decline to drink water offered to them by a Jain. That is something that still happens to Dalits in India today, in urban areas as well.

the deracination in this comment is astounding. I grew up in rural India all my life and this cartoonish casteism is no longer part of the mainstream Indian society. There will be isolated cases, but I’ve seen times and again people freely drinking water from a _pyau_ irrespective of the caste of the person. I implore you to take a rational look at Indian society and not rely on WaPo/NYT to know your own land.

Yeah I thought one of you would come and say this.

Here’s a video that you might find illuminating.

- Caste Conundrum: Why do upper castes believe discrimination doesn’t exist? - https://youtu.be/vjt8aBoejho (1.4M views).

You speak of NYT/WaPo. This was published by an Indian newspaper ThePrint.

Now you might be thinking, that can’t be right. I’ve lived in India for a long time, I know it isn’t like this. That’s ok, I used to think like that too. Until I saw a map of india overlayed with the extent of untouchability practised in each district. Turns out, I lived in a district where it was barely prevalent. Here was me, living in one corner of India for decades and extrapolating that to the rest of India. Don’t make the same mistake I did.

You can find that map and see how prevalent this abhorrent practice is in the beginning of this video

- What Hathras tells us about Casteism in India - https://youtu.be/ELbdGh0-4T4.

Both videos are mostly in Hindi, with English subtitles. I hope that’s ok.

Re: Back to India

#94

Post by nindalf »

Dharmakirti wrote: post #90
rushikesh98 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indian here. I don't understand what your friend meant. Can you please elaborate?

Thus is a dog whistle for casteism. This is a standard modus operendi of a certain section of opinionated people to drag caste into any discussion about India. Caste is a complex topic but this discussion has nothing to do with it.

Haha, that term doesn’t mean what you think it means. But it’s alright.

My point was that OP reckons India is great to return to. And I agree, it is! As long as you’re an upper caste male, like OP and I are. And even if that makes you uncomfortable, it is pertinent to the discussion of whether someone should go back to India.

Ironically, people like you insisting we shouldn’t discuss caste only makes this conclusion even more certain. We can’t fix what we won’t discuss.

Re: Back to India

#95

Post by nodemaker »

Okay so I did the same thing in 2012 after being frustrated working with the H1B system for 2 years. In 2013 however I moved to the netherlands for a job and in 2020 I became a dutch national (Actually spent the whole of 2019 in colombia). Now after 2 years of travelling (mostly living in spain) I am moving back to India again and will try Mumbai. I work with us companies remotely and will probably keep doing so and make trips to the US every few months. Cheers and good luck OP :)

Re: Back to India

#96

Post by nindalf »

Dharmakirti wrote: post #91
nindalf wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would benefit the non Indians, certainly. And it’d also get me flagged. But what the hell, I’ll say it. OP is an upper caste male. You won’t see many “India is doing great! I’m heading back there!” posts from Indian women or Indian Muslims or Indian Dalits. That’s what I meant. I’m similar to the OP in that I’m an upper caste male as well. The difference between me and him is that I can understand and empathise wi…

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There are tons of posts by Indian women, Muslims and Dalits that show that they’re also ascendant, but if you only look at -ve aspects you will always find dirt. I grew up in rural area and I’m not a savarna. I studied in Govt institutions and most of my non-Savarna batch mates are doing just fine. We don’t need savarna apologists to tell us what is the ground reality.

> There are tons of posts

Ok, go ahead and link 5 of them. Hyperlinks on the internet are free :)

Re: Back to India

#97

Post by nonamechicken »

princevegeta89 wrote: post #74

Fuck the H1b visa. Yes I understand that we have created a huge GC backlog by immigrating here in large numbers but that doesn't mean we should be dragged around like a toy. This is sadly the impression I've formed these days. Our entire lives here revolve around that visa and we could basically be holding on to it for 30 to 50 years before we can get a GC lol. In the meantime, maintaining our driver's licenses, bein…

> In the beginning when I was young I used to think "yes". But I've realized lately that it's a big "no".

Exactly my thoughts. The poor quality air or the mad traffic in Indian cities feels a lot better than the insane stress the visa situations put me through the last few years.

Re: Back to India

#98

Post by nonamechicken »

nindalf wrote: post #73
mahkeiro wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many cases where “expat" are sent to a different country by their company. They are there for a couple of years depending on the projects. I don't see how they can be called immigrant, and they certainly don't see themselves as such.

Brown and black people sent temporarily by their companies are considered immigrants. White people living in retirement communities in Thailand call themselves and are called expats. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/10/immigr...

"Immigrants" is still a humane term. H1Bs are called as "temporary alien workers".

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/laws-and-regulations/laws/i...

Re: Back to India

#99

Post by riantogo »

arcen wrote: post #69
ramraj07 wrote: post #40

Good for you but there’s no real advantage professionally in moving back, but no disadvantage either. Sure you’re saying H1B restricts but does it really? Have you truly explored all immigration options? Or did you just balk at all the extra beauracracy and said I’ll go back to india? Which is fine, but do note the irony of moving to india to avoid bureaucracy lol. Apply and do your GST, run between five different br…

I agree things aren't the best and you make several valid points. However, seems to me that you are in the camp who would rather shit on their own country instead of finding ways to make things better for everyone. You too are a part of the privileged class at this moment - sitting in the US (presumably).

Shit on your own country? What does that even mean? The place you were born by chance? Now you have to “own” it as an identity? Do you have the same beliefs about government? religion? caste? race? I suggest you try freeing yourself of such burden.

Re: Back to India

#100

Post by lotsofpulp »

rob74 wrote: post #58
pm90 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only really applies to a few developing countries, though. I actually think it only really applies to India. When you're creating products for developing countries, you have to build for a certain market. The one in India is enormous and prosperity is increasing (although the pandemic has been a setback, yes).

Yeah, if only 5% of the Indian population can afford your product, that's still a market comparable to the entire German population (~70 million). As long as the way that the other 95% have to live doesn't bother you. I have never been to India, but I still remember the news of the Covid lockdown in 2020 where the migrant workers were suddenly left without income and had to fend for themselves...

If I am okay with the way the other 95% live around the world, I do not see any reason I would be bothered by the way the other 95% have to live within an arbitrarily delineated portion of the world.
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