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A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

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Re: A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

#91

Post by dismantlethesun »

asguy wrote: post #2

Reading this, I feel like I’m seeing the past through the eyes of a US-based zoomer. This person should spend 6 months living with the locals in any 3rd-world country.

But why? Speaking as someone from a '3rd world country' [1], the traditional food preparation has been unchanged since the 1920s. The last great change in diet occurred when tomatoes and corn arrived from the America's to W. Africa, then later again when rice became a staple.

The US has a fantastical food culture because it's a large country that can natively produce almost every crop, and was historically agrarian. Adding to that, the US food culture always changes to wars, new immigrants, boycott, and government subsidies. Most countries aren't like that, and are significantly more conservative with dietary changes.

[1] We do not love that phrasing. The Cold War is over. Just say which continent you mean specifically.

Re: A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

#92

Post by OJFord »

jotm wrote: post #53
camhart wrote: post #46

I can't stand "normal" milk from the US... the stuff you buy in the plastic cartons. It taste horrid. Milk from Germany? I love it. Milk from Darigold in the paper cartons? I love it. Milk from Darigold in the plastic? Tastes like garbage. Organic milk in a paper carton? Some is good, some taste like garbage. I didn't realize how different milk tastes until I spent some time in Germany. Prior to that I just thought I…

Most German milk is either "long life" or UHT, both of which taste better to me than "normal" pasteurized milk, which is the most common in England, for example. The three different pasteurization techniques result in different tasting milk. I do notice a difference between foil lined carton, plastic jug and carton milk, the latter usually tastes the worst probably because the carton is more permeable? But I do love…

Interesting, I've never heard anyone say anything than 'ugh, it's UHT' (e.g. in hotels) before!

I wonder if it's at least partly the temperature, since UHT milk is shelf stable (for a good while anyway) you might be drinking it significantly warmer than milk from the fridge?

Re: A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

#93

Post by dismantlethesun »

fosk wrote: post #76
egypturnash wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fascinating how much this can change if you find a good source for local stuff. Tomatoes go from uniformly-sized red food pellets to a huge variety of sizes and colors with a lot more flavor to them. I miss having a farmer’s market two blocks from my place with a heirloom tomato specialist showing up regularly.

As a European, food at the farmer’s market is usually cheaper in Europe because we cut the middleman and go straight to the producer. Somehow in the US, it’s more expensive instead because “artisanal”, “organic” and so on. As such, in the US, farmer markets always feel like a scam to me.

Food at US farmer markets are cheaper if two conditions are met: firstly, going to an actual farmers market which tends to be far out of town, secondly, only buying in season produce without hydroponics.

In the US, I live about 100km outside of a major city, so the farms are next door and the food is tasty.

That said, it's really difficult to convince someone to drive 100km to get a normal ordinary head of lettuce with dirt attached to it so they set up stalls inside the city for top selling 'organic artisanal' items that come in nice display cases.

Re: A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

#94

Post by namibj »

sandos wrote: post #81
jotm wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most German milk is either "long life" or UHT, both of which taste better to me than "normal" pasteurized milk, which is the most common in England, for example. The three different pasteurization techniques result in different tasting milk. I do notice a difference between foil lined carton, plastic jug and carton milk, the latter usually tastes the worst probably because the carton is more permeable? But I do love…

Yeah the UHT milk tastes sweeter apparently. I dont drink milk any more due to lactose intolerance, but only one time I noticed a real difference in milk taste, and that was when the milk very super-clearly to me tasted of almonds.

Here it has a variant (of shelf-stable milk) that was treated with lactase, both 3.5% and 1.5% fat.

Re: A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

#95

Post by rjsw »

missedthecue wrote: post #29
helloworld11 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise for German forces in the second war. When they encountered the sheer richness and quantity of U.S provisions after the D Day landings, for many of them it really brought home how hopeless their situation was in ways that abstract ideas of military and economic balances couldn't. Of course this shouldn't necessarily be used to draw absolute conclusions. Soviet forces were basically pushed into battling the Ge…

Captured german defenders on D-Day famously asked their American captors where all their horses were.

Why? The British Army that they had been fighting since 1940 didn't use horses either so the Germans knew that it was possible.

Re: A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

#96

Post by helloworld11 »

missedthecue wrote: post #29
helloworld11 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise for German forces in the second war. When they encountered the sheer richness and quantity of U.S provisions after the D Day landings, for many of them it really brought home how hopeless their situation was in ways that abstract ideas of military and economic balances couldn't. Of course this shouldn't necessarily be used to draw absolute conclusions. Soviet forces were basically pushed into battling the Ge…

Captured german defenders on D-Day famously asked their American captors where all their horses were.

Not sure about specific German soldiers asking that specific question, but I've heard the anecdote from a couple books about the post-D Day U.S military operations towards Germany. It's plausible though; the U.S Army was by far the most mechanized of the war in Europe. Germany's massive "mobile army" during Barbarossa and during the Polish and French campaigns before that was something like 80% literal cavalry and only 15 or 20% mechanized (taking aside marching infantry). These percentages never changed much during the war for the Germans.

Re: A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

#97

Post by actionfromafar »

kccqzy wrote: post #27
morsch wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. Just cook stuff from scratch? This isn't difficult. Just modestly time consuming it you want a varied meal plan. Unless you're saying that even for raw ingredients like eggs and potatoes, it's hard to know what's in them, in the sense that modern agriculture is a complex affair.

Definitely the raw ingredients are different. For example when I buy milk, I can find versions that are from cows not treated with rBST, and those that are. Is there much of a difference for consumers? The government doesn't think so, but certainly some producers do. Same thing with meat. You can buy meat from animals fed with ractopamine, and those that aren't. Some governments (such as the European Union) believe i…

Banned in the EU since 1999.

Re: A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

#98

Post by bobince »

jotm wrote: post #53
camhart wrote: post #46

I can't stand "normal" milk from the US... the stuff you buy in the plastic cartons. It taste horrid. Milk from Germany? I love it. Milk from Darigold in the paper cartons? I love it. Milk from Darigold in the plastic? Tastes like garbage. Organic milk in a paper carton? Some is good, some taste like garbage. I didn't realize how different milk tastes until I spent some time in Germany. Prior to that I just thought I…

Most German milk is either "long life" or UHT, both of which taste better to me than "normal" pasteurized milk, which is the most common in England, for example. The three different pasteurization techniques result in different tasting milk. I do notice a difference between foil lined carton, plastic jug and carton milk, the latter usually tastes the worst probably because the carton is more permeable? But I do love…

The prevalent milk in Germany (originally promoted as “hält länger frisch” et al) is Extended Shelf Life (ESL). It's treated hotter than traditional (HTST) pasteurisation of the type dominant in the UK, but not as brutally treated as traditional UHT.

Personally I'm not a fan of ESL and would seek out the remaining HTST brands, but it's eminently preferable to UHT.

Re: A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

#99

Post by Symbiote »

idontwantthis wrote: post #9

I remember reading an account by a German soldier in WWI who had just taken an American trench and in it he found a fresh Apple Pie from Boston, and he immediately knew the war was hopeless.

I found that difficult to believe. There were refrigerated ships [2] but I don't think flash freezing methods had been invented. The pie would be mushy, and how would it be transported from the port to the front line?

The New York Tribune (18 May 1918, page 3 [1]) has an article describing a much more likely process: send the ingredients to the front line, and send cooks. Apples, flour, butter and sugar transport very easily. Eggs are fragile, but maybe they used dried egg, or maybe that wasn't a problem.

> "When we got our affairs in tip top shape two American girls could cook 3,000 doughnuts a day and 150 pies."

[1] https://www.loc.gov/resource/sn83030214/1918-05-18/ed-1/?sp=...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_ship#Timeline

Re: A Square Meal – Foods of the ‘20s and ‘30s

#100

Post by gattilorenz »

OJFord wrote: post #92
jotm wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most German milk is either "long life" or UHT, both of which taste better to me than "normal" pasteurized milk, which is the most common in England, for example. The three different pasteurization techniques result in different tasting milk. I do notice a difference between foil lined carton, plastic jug and carton milk, the latter usually tastes the worst probably because the carton is more permeable? But I do love…

Interesting, I've never heard anyone say anything than 'ugh, it's UHT' (e.g. in hotels) before! I wonder if it's at least partly the temperature, since UHT milk is shelf stable (for a good while anyway) you might be drinking it significantly warmer than milk from the fridge?

> I wonder if it's at least partly the temperature, since UHT milk is shelf stable (for a good while anyway) you might be drinking it significantly warmer than milk from the fridge?

Hardly. When I was younger I used to have UHT milk at my grandma, and she stored it in the fridge (after opening), so it was same temperature of what I drank home. Still a very noticeable difference with "normal" milk.

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