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Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

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Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#91

Post by tluyben2 »

L_226 wrote: post #75
tluyben2 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with taxes and capital and incorporation is that usually fixing it beforehand is easy while after you start to make money, you are perhaps too late. We went for London because not as litigious, light on paperwork, cheap to incorporate and there is a lot of money slushing around. Not America sized investments but close enough. And easy ramp to the US if you wish. Taxes are quite high once money starts pori…

I'll have a look again, got any useful links? I need to relocate to south EU anyway to build my thing, so I am not specifically tied to incorporating in Germany beyond being a citizen.

If you want you can email me (see Hn profile); I moved from NL to the south so maybe I can help.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#92

Post by tluyben2 »

monkeydust wrote: post #69
L_226 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London probably won't work for me. I have not pulled the trigger yet, tbh I am less worried about German taxes than I am running a C Corp from outside the US. Mainly because of the litigation heavy US culture, opaque paperwork overhead etc.

London probably has most generous tax incentives for startups to offer their investors. S/EIS.

Yes, exactly. And the grant process, albeit through no cure no pay orgs, is quite good.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#93

Post by kwere »

santiagobasulto wrote: post #6
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #2

As Italian, when I read something involving Agnellis willing to do something for Italy, I am a bit scared about taxpayers money, like Fiat has always got tax discounts and subsidies and as a thank you has closed factories, and fired people, can we just keep the people related to Agnellis in the Silicon Valley?

Off topic! I just moved to Italy, living in Torino now. How's the startup ecosystem in Italy? I've seen some interesting Blockchain-related groups at the Politecnico, but not much after that.

there is something around universities and in Milano,Rome. Its really small scale, low pay, very high risk. I believe engineering/product based startup are more fit for the italian market and offer more exit options, mostly M&A.

In Turin there is I3P [www.i3p.it], a serious incubator managed by the Torino Politechnich

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#94

Post by dmitriid »

samatman wrote: post #78
johnthewise wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that IT startups are all that matter.

One wouldn't even have to argue such a thing to limit the discussion in that way for an "Italian Y Combinator" article.

IT companies don't exist in a vacuum.

Also, there's a reason American IT companies frequently list medical insurance, parental leave, vacation tim as benefits. You know, things you don't even think about are listed as benefits.

Why would anyone want this insanity is beyond me.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#95

Post by kwere »

darkwater wrote: post #37
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soon after that I got also my e-id, what a bloody win not being watched anymore like a neanderthaler every time I had to show my ID :D (but I lost the PIN) (But then I got the SPID and didn't need the e-ID anymore :D)

For SPID I'm also trapped in some loop where I can't get it easily from abroad, and I still don't understand why.

with Sielte i did the SPID online in three days

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#96

Post by gpderetta »

jason0597 wrote: post #60
dmitriid wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what are some problems companies in Europe would have to deal with? What liberties are exclusive to the US? 1. Market US: a rather unified single English-speaking market of 300 million people. EU: 27 different markets in the EU + half a dozen markets in countries freely associated with the EU (e.g. Norway and Switzerland) in different languages, cultures and expectations 2. Money US: unlimited unchecked runaway mon…

> half a dozen markets in countries freely associated with the EU (e.g. Norway and Switzerland) in different languages, cultures and expectations Well, it isn't half a dozen, it's more like 3 countries (Iceland, Switzerland and Norway). 4 if you count Liechtenstein with its population of 38k people.

Well there is also Monaco, Andorra, San Marino and of course Vatican City with its population of 800!

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#97

Post by dmitriid »

gpderetta wrote: post #96
jason0597 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> half a dozen markets in countries freely associated with the EU (e.g. Norway and Switzerland) in different languages, cultures and expectations Well, it isn't half a dozen, it's more like 3 countries (Iceland, Switzerland and Norway). 4 if you count Liechtenstein with its population of 38k people.

Well there is also Monaco, Andorra, San Marino and of course Vatican City with its population of 800!

Well, we can also count the UK now :)

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#98

Post by tluyben2 »

L_226 wrote: post #72
alexdoesstuff wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German having gone through the experience, I feel I am reasonably qualified to give a perspective: The US setup is a breeze administratively, but fairly costly. You definitely need a tax accountant onshore ($3-5k per year at least, more if the setup is more complex) but that will take care of a good share of the minutiae. You probably also eventually need somebody helping you in Germany to take care of employmen…

Thanks, I was expecting to have a German subsidiary eventually. Also considering Netherlands

Netherlands is good as it’s not too expensive (we dropped the 9k ltd thing you also have for gbmh quite a while ago) but the rules and taxes and lack of investors is quite hard; similar things to Germany. You would be bound to those anyway though if your employees are not freelancers and are in those countries…

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#99

Post by kwere »

darkwater wrote: post #5

Good luck with that, Italy and Italians are one of the most bureaucracy-obsessed country on the planet. You can think you own country has bureaucracy issues? Go check Italy, and it will be for sure worse. I mean, in 2022 AFAIK and still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch (I think t…

FUN FACT: in Italy there are 160K regulations (75k at national level), 7000 in France, 5500 in Germany [0]. I would say that the structure is to shift responsabilities down the power stream. For example, Doctor were legally and financially liable if any covid patient got aftereffects [1]

[0] https://www.corriere.it/economia/aziende/cards/imprese-itali...

[1]https://www.univrmagazine.it/2020/04/09/emergenza-covid-19-e...

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#100

Post by dgellow »

dgellow wrote: post #62
inductive_magic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From someone who hasn't interacted with the startup world much yet: what are some problems companies in Europe would have to deal with? What liberties are exclusive to the US? I'd imagine lots of complications of running a US-based company within Europe. I can't imagine moving to the US, and I'm sure that lots of smart people in the EU are in the same camp. At the same time, I'd be very interested in providing high v…

> I can't imagine moving to the US, and I'm sure that lots of smart people in the EU are in the same camp. At the same time, I'd be very interested in providing high value to and being part of a company with the velocity and dynamics of a start-up. I personally do this via contracting. I’m in Europe and work for people in the US. I’m currently working with two companies, both are very early stage startups, it’s very…

I meant “services”, not “devices”… My autocorrect is a bit too zealous…
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