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Mystery GPS Tracker on a Supporter’s Car

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Re: Mystery GPS Tracker on a Supporter’s Car

#91

Post by jes »

tallanvor wrote: post #73
quartz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing AT commandes described as the "way that humans and machines can interact with a cellular modem" made me feel old because they didn't just say "remember AT commands from manually driving your Hayes 9600baud dial up modem?"

9600? Try 1200 baud! Of course, this guarantees that someone will chime in talking about starting off with a 300 baud modem that worked like they showed in WarGames.

Back in the 70s, I dialed a number on my parent’s rotary phone. When the remote computer answered, I would shove the handset into the earmuffs on the acoustic coupler[1].

It usually worked. I don’t remember if the baud rate was 300 or 110.

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_coupler

Re: Mystery GPS Tracker on a Supporter’s Car

#92

Post by danuker »

wiz21c wrote: post #85
danuker wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we got: awareness about vehicle trackers and some tips on how to handle them. I believe awareness of technology is crucial for civil society. Sure it's got a clickbaity title, but it worked in getting HN on it.

yep EFF sound a bit paranoid on this one. But nonetheless, I'll double check my car seats !

It's not paranoia when they're really out to get you. For example, a Tor Project contributor moved to Germany.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fb...

The EFF is roughly in the same bucket - i.e. some interest from federal agencies due to empowering individuals relative to the state.

Re: Mystery GPS Tracker on a Supporter’s Car

#93

Post by jhoechtl »

londons_explore wrote: post #72
Hamuko wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If these things connect to the OBD port, aren't they basically trivial to find and uninstall yourself?

They're normally wired in somewhere behind the glovebox or steering column, and can be pretty hard to find. I had one on a car I bought, and it kept draining the car battery whenever I left it more than a few days. I wasted many hours buying new batteries, testing alternators, and tracking down leakage currents before finding it consuming nearly a watt continuously.

Did you mean 1 Watt or actually 1 Amp? 1 Watt would be rather modest and shouldn't drain you battery within a week, 1 Amp certainly is another story.

Re: Mystery GPS Tracker on a Supporter’s Car

#94

Post by stavros »

Hmm, my trust in this article is eroded by the fact that they don't seem to know much about hardware. They didn't connect the grounds together (so of course they had junk data), and they appeared a bit surprised at having to change the baud rate.

I guess calling the company and giving them the serial was what solved the mystery in the end, but the hardware investigation left a lot to be desired (and was fruitless in the end).

Re: Mystery GPS Tracker on a Supporter’s Car

#95

Post by kogepathic »

rob74 wrote: post #84
kogepathic wrote: post #76

This article title is FUD and the EFF is doing themselves a disservice in publishing this. The GPS tracking device had absolutely no connection to the individual being an EFF supporter, and was in fact entirely benign (if unknown to the vehicle owner). What we need from the EFF: a serious discussion about anti-theft vehicle tracking and privacy (e.g. a list of brands/dealerships installing these devices, how/where to…

If you want to read FUD into it, you can, but the fact is that (a) a person found a GPS tracker in her car and (b) she is an EFF supporter, which led her to contact them and get it examined. So the title is entirely justified, if a bit clickbaity. But to then say they should have refrained from publishing the article is exaggerated. Actually I was glad I read it and appalled that it seems to be routine for car dealer…

> But to then say they should have refrained from publishing the article is exaggerated.

The article as-written provides almost no useful information apart from an anecdote about one person finding a GPS tracking device in their car and contacting the EFF.

> Given how many people have been surprised to find this specific GPS tracker in their cars (as mentioned above) it’s possible that many car dealerships are installing these devices without proper customer notification.

One person is mentioned in the article. If the EFF knows how widespread the installation of this tracking device is, why isn't this discussed? How many car dealerships did the EFF contact to find out if they install such devices?

All the useful questions at the bottom of the article are unanswered:

> Is the sky-link GPS device still sending location data back to a Sky Link server? If so, could it be accessed by an employee, or someone who activates the device in the future?

Writing an article about a single individual who was not targeted: FUD

Writing an article about how many cars these devices are installed in, what data they transmit, who the provider(s) sell your location data to: useful for privacy and policy discussions

Re: Mystery GPS Tracker on a Supporter’s Car

#96

Post by barnabee »

kogepathic wrote: post #76

This article title is FUD and the EFF is doing themselves a disservice in publishing this. The GPS tracking device had absolutely no connection to the individual being an EFF supporter, and was in fact entirely benign (if unknown to the vehicle owner). What we need from the EFF: a serious discussion about anti-theft vehicle tracking and privacy (e.g. a list of brands/dealerships installing these devices, how/where to…

I don’t call a GPS tracker installed in a car without the owner’s knowledge or permission, and where it’s still unknown if it is now or ever has been or could later be activated (again perhaps without the owner’s knowledge) to send the car’s location to a third party “entirely benign”.

I call that extremely worrying! I’d want to remove any such device from my car immediately.

Re: Mystery GPS Tracker on a Supporter’s Car

#98

Post by sva_ »

jmole wrote: post #34
brettnak wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you find the tracker in the car?

Connected to the OBD port with an OBD splitter to make it look like there was nothing installed there. They didn’t secure it well though, so I saw it dangling by the brake pedal. https://imgur.com/a/MSGmfRt

You paid $250 to get that device removed? Did you try just unplugging it?!

Re: Mystery GPS Tracker on a Supporter’s Car

#99

Post by kragen »

danuker wrote: post #92
wiz21c wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yep EFF sound a bit paranoid on this one. But nonetheless, I'll double check my car seats !

It's not paranoia when they're really out to get you. For example, a Tor Project contributor moved to Germany. https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fb... The EFF is roughly in the same bucket - i.e. some interest from federal agencies due to empowering individuals relative to the state.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fb... is about Isis Agora Lovecruft, but several other Tor developers have lived in Germany.

Re: Mystery GPS Tracker on a Supporter’s Car

#100

Post by playpause »

danuker wrote: post #88
playpause wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sentiment towards the EFF just took a big tumble, probably permanently. Tricking and cheating people has costs as well as benefits. EDIT: I've had my faith restored. Added reply to a comment below.

I believe this speaks more about yourself than EFF. You are judging a 79-employee non-profit based on a single article from one of them. There's also the fact that the article did not cheat in any way, but reflected one's mindset while discovering such an issue. A bit of trickery, sure, but what's life without plot twists?

No, I'm not judging them, I just said my view of them took a tumble. When I feel tricked, I lose trust in whoever tricked me. And negative trust is often lasting. It's hard to gain trust and very easy to lose it.

BUT: I didn't read the whole article. I read kogepathic's comment first, which gave away the twist and framed the headline as clickbait, and I went along with that. But I now see it's as you say. Lesson learned.

I definitely don't think that writing an intriguing headline and delivering on it with a satisfying story counts as clickbait. Clickbait is something that fails to deliver at all, not something that delivers in a way you didn’t expect.

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