The Lisp Curse (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Lisp Curse (2017)

#91

Post by lispm » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 7:23 AM UTC

speed_spread wrote: post #88

jhgb wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lisp: "List processing". Clojure doesn't even have cons cells... A Lisp without cons cells is like a C derivative without pointers...is it really C at that point? I'd also question the "profound belief that recursion is more intuitive than loops" since Lisp supports loops extremely well -- better than most languages, since you can build up your own iterative constructs using tagbody. And Clojure doesn't even have pro…

Clojure doesn't have tail calls because they should be implemented at the JVM level to be effective, a feature which has been on the back burner for ever because no other languages would use them.

Programming languages on top of the JVM would not use that? Who said that?

Re: The Lisp Curse (2017)

#92

Post by bayesian_horse » Sat, Mar 26, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

Flankk wrote: post #37

bayesian_horse wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever says things like that probably means "appropriate" in the sense that you can get your stuff done with another language using a fraction of the implementation time. And whoever wishes to use C++ on websites... who is stopping you since Webassembly? Speaking about ecosystems... I also don't think the package management ecosystem in C++ is that much better, right? And there are enough horror stories about illegi…

Wasm is bleeding edge. AFAIK the only compatible UI library is Qt and support is not production ready. I have never needed package management in C++. There are gotchas with all languages, Lisp is not a panacea. Language verbosity is not bad it's a tradeoff, functional languages are usually hard to read. The language requiring you to be precise is a good thing. There's a reason the web industry has moved to TypeScript…

Wasm is not just bleeding edge, it is supported by all major browsers and being used in all sorts of real-world websites. No, "Qt" is not the only way to do UI in C++/wasm. This is a basic misunderstanding of the technology. Wasm lives inside the Javascript vm and can manipulate DOM objects all day long. It's just not very practical to do so. There are plenty of Rust projects going in that direction, though...

C++ doesn't only require you to be precise, it requires you to be verbose. JS is quite precise, and a lot more expressive because of the runtime. TypeScript is all of this and also allows you to be more explicit in order for the compiler to check your work, much like a proof checker.

The C++ type system is relatively stupid compared to that of TypeScript and F#, for example. In TS and F#, you can use types to help you, in C++ you already need the types because otherwise the compiler doesn't have a clue what to do.

Re: The Lisp Curse (2017)

#93

Post by eimrine » Sun, Mar 27, 2022, 10:21 AM UTC

paperclipp wrote: post #86

eimrine wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the highest quality restaurant in the world is MacDonald's. Isn't it so? The meal is enough healthy (for hard-workers only, not for calories-gathers), calorage as I have mentioned is excellent, waiting is minimum, non-meal payings (keeping the restaurant attractive) are the lowest possible, the most important thing is that in poor countries (my is in the bottom of bigmac index) the prices are lower than anything el…

>The meal is enough healthy Have you been sleeping under a rock for the last 20 years ? McDo food has never been healthy. The nutrient content is poor, potatoes are cultivated with nasty insecticides, shit in the meat, etc, etc

> McDo food has never been healthy

What do you think is needed to be add or to be removed?

> The nutrient content is poor

Can you disclosure your information a little bit? Maybe you have a link to some publications or anything better then just an opinion.

> potatoes are cultivated with nasty insecticides

Of course they are, or you know any better protection from colorado beatle? If you are living in America or in another place where transportated species are not a problem for your local nature - you can not even imagine what a hard problem is to beat a specie which has no nature enemies.

> shit in the meat, etc, etc Well, I don't know where to get better ingredients then MacDo has gotten. I definitely not sure that meat in my fridge has no shit tbh.