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Firefox now only available via snap on Ubuntu

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Re: Firefox now only available via snap on Ubuntu

#91

Post by rando832 »

branon wrote: post #56

I don't like this at all. The Firefox snap has really bad crashing issues, and the filesystem sandbox makes using the file picker confusing especially for my nontechnical family members. I tried using the snap, I really gave it an honest attempt, and it stinks. The final straw was when removing and reinstalling the snap deleted my Firefox profile. That was really unacceptable. Removing Firefox via apt doesn't wipe ou…

Try abrowser from the Trisquel apt repo. It is a firefox rebuild with a few tweaks for privacy.

Re: Firefox now only available via snap on Ubuntu

#92

Post by everybodyknows »

BearOso wrote: post #89
robert_foss wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no. The parent point was that Snap is a way out of this software packaging quagmire, but I am saying that Snap will never unify the linux distros.

A snap has Ubuntu-specific package dependencies. That's totally not a cross-platform concept. The only thing snap solves is sandboxing, but there are better ways to do that.

> Ubuntu-specific package dependencies

Could you briefly summarize those for us?

Re: Firefox now only available via snap on Ubuntu

#95

Post by adhesive_wombat »

haunter wrote: post #82
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I installed Ubuntu a few weeks ago at work because most people use it and there is some existing infrastructure around it (mostly for the target platforms, but could also be for dev machines). I have to say that coming from Arch, it's a very Windowsy experience: lots of software has to be installed by searching for "install XYZ on Ubuntu", and following some instructions that involve scary-looking command lines that…

>very Windowsy experience >scary-looking command lines that mess with cryptographic keys >for a real Windows experience, install from a deb and hope you remember where you got it from when it needs an update Yeah I guess you didn't use Windows recently cause that never happens there

Googling for an exe or msi installer is fundamentally the same thing. Unless it's in the Windows Store, which it probably isn't.

Once installed, unless it has it's own phone-home for updates, you won't know if it's out of date.

Re: Firefox now only available via snap on Ubuntu

#96

Post by Spivak »

sph wrote: post #84
jckahn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this comment demonstrates the parent’s point.

Before every distro had their own package management system and repository. Then 99% went with Flatpak, except one, Ubuntu with their own proprietary solution called snap. It's not the same thing. We have a decent (yeah not perfect, I'll spare commenters the effort of posting that same old tired flatpak rebuttal) cross distro packaging solution, but Canonical always wants to play different and not collaborate with th…

You can also just install Flatpak on Ubuntu and never think about Snap ever again if you so choose. Someone putting forth effort to maintain their own bespoke repository isn't really that big a deal.

In 10 years the "Ubuntu Store" will be a pretty frontend on top of Flatpak just like Gnome Software, and just like every NIH Canonical product made before it.

Re: Firefox now only available via snap on Ubuntu

#97

Post by everybodyknows »

bayindirh wrote: post #58
jeroenhd wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEB is working fine for most users, for the corporate/Fedora users RPM also is good enough. Flatpak works great for GUI applications as well, it integrates nicely with most "app store" interfaces on Linux. DEB vs RPM is an ancient debate, each comes with its pros and cons. Flatpak and Snap try to solve a different problem (sandboxing + dependency hell vs stable system-wide dependencies). MacOS has PKG, but most softw…

Everybody I know strongly dislikes snap because of the machinery it brings and how untidy it is. Also it's forced upon the users. AppImage and Flatpak are fine, and AppImage is the first choice amongst this "everything included" bundle formats. However, Ubuntu is forcing snaps as a power move. Both the software, and the treatment from Canonical is off-putting a lot of enthusiasts right now.

The devil on my shoulder wonders if Canonical's pushing of Snap, rather than adoption of FlatPak, is another instance of the Not-Invented-Here organizational dysfunction that led it to slog on with its own Bazaar SCM rather than switch to Git (or Mercurial).

Re: Firefox now only available via snap on Ubuntu

#98

Post by Spivak »

kaba0 wrote: post #72
AussieWog93 wrote: post #32

There's a very strong reaction here from users, but overall if more software became snap-only (or FlatPak-only, or anything-only), it would solve one of Linux's biggest pain points as a software developer. MSI on Windows is completely fucked, PKG on Mac has a few footguns, but at least they're universal, decades-old standards supported by mature tooling. You release an MSI/PKG, and you're done. Works on every Windows…

The thing is, none of the mainstream package formats solve the underlying problem, they just push it to a different layer. I know what I’m saying can be regarded as “+1 different standards”, but Nix is the only truly novel approach to package management that can reliably install a huge-ass behemoth package group like Gnome, install Plasma next to it and remove both without a single garbage file laying around afterwar…

Nix fails the "don't make me think" test unfortunately. Flatpak is winning because you can head-empty dump a working application into it and it will work. Nix requires discipline on the part of the packager which will never scale.

Re: Firefox now only available via snap on Ubuntu

#99

Post by [deleted] »

jckahn wrote: post #78

I get the hate against snaps. I tried really hard to give them a chance, but in my experience it’s a generally poor user experience. What I don’t get is why people feel like they need to leave Ubuntu because of it. Flatpak et al. work just as well on Ubuntu as anything else. Simply not using snaps on Ubuntu seems like a simpler solution than abandoning the distro altogether (assuming you don’t distro hop for fun).

[deleted]

Re: Firefox now only available via snap on Ubuntu

#100

Post by ppseafield »

jckahn wrote: post #78

I get the hate against snaps. I tried really hard to give them a chance, but in my experience it’s a generally poor user experience. What I don’t get is why people feel like they need to leave Ubuntu because of it. Flatpak et al. work just as well on Ubuntu as anything else. Simply not using snaps on Ubuntu seems like a simpler solution than abandoning the distro altogether (assuming you don’t distro hop for fun).

For me, snaps auto-update without my input, and apt will install snaps without telling you they're snaps. So my assumption that my computer only updates when I tell it to no longer holds.
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