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Inside Putin's Circle

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Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#91

Post by worik »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #30
user249 wrote: post #18

Quoted post unavailable.

Business, despite all its press and media to the contrary, isn't war. People are not dying and suffering and you don't really face any repercussions from your actions. War is a totally different thing so asking people to "move fast and break things" doesn't really make sense in that context especially when there are actual physical repercussions. Also why should the people on this site really care? Honestly I get it…

> I have watched my friends and family members server in wars

I am outraged that there was not the equivalent global outrage over the invasion of Iraq back in the day.

I am pleased that there is outrage today. But the USA, like Russia, is effectively a rouge state.

It is not politics to invade a country. It is crime.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#92

Post by worik »

tunesmith wrote: post #27
user249 wrote: post #18

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm not as surprised, given the kind of discussion we've seen the last few years. Hacker News main audience isn't true hackers. A large proportion of its readers are techno-libertarian startup/venture corporatists, many with an authoritarian bent.

> techno-libertarian startup/venture corporatists, many with an authoritarian bent.

Not me!

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#93

Post by pwillia7 »

yborg wrote: post #85
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

"I believe, however, that Putin and the siloviki (though not many in the wider elites) welcome this isolation [from the west]. They are becoming impressed with the Chinese model: a tremendously dynamic economy, a disciplined society and a growing military superpower ruled over with iron control by a hereditary elite that combines huge wealth with deep patriotism, promoting the idea of China as a separate and superior…

The "Chinese model" is as old as civilization and has been implemented and collapsed many times in China itself. If Putin establishes a new czarist dynasty in Russia, it will end up just like the last one.

To be fair, so far it seems all empires will fall eventually.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#94

Post by the_lonely_road »

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #72
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

"I believe, however, that Putin and the siloviki (though not many in the wider elites) welcome this isolation [from the west]. They are becoming impressed with the Chinese model: a tremendously dynamic economy, a disciplined society and a growing military superpower ruled over with iron control by a hereditary elite that combines huge wealth with deep patriotism, promoting the idea of China as a separate and superior…

The idea of a centralised planned state fell with the USSR, and it was widely argued that it fell _because_ of central planning. China is becoming a counter-example for the people who have always been fond of the idea of having a state ruled by an "elite", with the perception that democracy is fragile and doesn't work for long-term (more than a 4/5 years mandate) planning.

The world changed in a very significant way over the last 70 years. Even more so over the last 20 years. It may very well end up that the Information Age has tipped the scales and our large meandering decentralized democracies are no longer the superior model they were back when it took 4 weeks to get a letter from New York City to Washington DC. Now it’s a synchronous call with satellite footage of every inch of the earth. It may very be that centralized planned economies are now the superior model and only the test of time will unveil which is true.

I’ve lost a bit of sleep wondering about this over the years.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#96

Post by bogomipz »

Animats wrote: post #41

That's a very useful and important article. So that's who Putin talks to. A very small group who share his worldview: It is the manifest destiny of Mother Russia to have an empire in Eastern Europe. A key point that has emerged from a number of sources is that Putin's crowd has no plan B. This isn't considered by Russia's leadership to be just a military adventure - if it works, great, if it doesn't work, pull back a…

Curiously Orthodox Christian mysticism creeps in to this sense of destiny as well which is really scary. See:

"Russia’s Menacing Mix of Religion and Nuclear Weapons In the Kremlin, Faith and Force Go Hand in Hand"[1]

Another member of this inner circle not named in this article is Yuri Kovalchuk who's the largest sharedholders in Rossiya Bank in addition to National Media Group. He is a long time friend and advisor to Putin and subscribes to this same Orthodox Christian mystic narrative where Russia needs to save the world from the West.[2]

There's a book by Gary Lachman about this that came out a couple of years ago called:

"The Return of Holy Russia: Apocalyptic History, Mystical Awakening, and the Struggle for the Soul of the World"

[1] https://archive.ph/EeaaG

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukra...

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#97

Post by harshreality »

qiskit wrote: post #55
twelve40 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, definitely not "hard men", more like what you described, except various intelligence agencies who don't always wear a gun, are also included.

We get what you are trying to say, but people carry guns, they don't wear guns.

Gun carry (or more specific open or concealed carry) is the more popular phrase, due to the popularity of EDC (every day carry) as a phrase covering everything from guns to knives to keychains; however, "wear" is not a linguistic mistake, but an alternative to "carry".

"Wear" differentiates from things that you carry in your hands or pockets or a bag. Things that are part of your dress, like watches, ties, and handguns in holsters, are more "worn" than "carried", though it could be either.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#98

Post by mirntyfirty »

worik wrote: post #83
Animats wrote: post #41

That's a very useful and important article. So that's who Putin talks to. A very small group who share his worldview: It is the manifest destiny of Mother Russia to have an empire in Eastern Europe. A key point that has emerged from a number of sources is that Putin's crowd has no plan B. This isn't considered by Russia's leadership to be just a military adventure - if it works, great, if it doesn't work, pull back a…

> Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed. Or Russia wins

They aren’t going to win. Their economy started with noticeable issues and has since been obliterated. Aggression wars against a weak opponent are remarkably expensive and Ukraine has received a significant amount of support (I’d estimate around 20b so far) whereas the ruble and Russian markets (bond, equity, and a large portion of export/import) have been nuked. They are running on fumes in a war that is projected to run for quite some time.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#99

Post by tenuousemphasis »

sgt101 wrote: post #24
ordu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policemen wear guns, and it doesn't sound like an organized crime. The root of the word "siloviki" is "sila", which means "force". And it is about using force in order to perform their job. Like policemen do. Or security guards. Or soldiers. And it is not used to refer to crime activities. They also use force, but they are not "siloviki".

In some places, in theory, the police use consent of the overwhelming majority to do their job.

That is merely a pleasant sounding fiction perpetuated by those with wealth and power.

Re: Inside Putin's Circle

#100

Post by geoka9 »

worik wrote: post #87
geoka9 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also why should the people on this site really care? This war is the closest we've been to a nuclear war since the Caribbean Crisis in 1962. Especially if Russia wins.

We will be much closer if Russia cannot win

Then stop helping Ukraine? But then don't be surprised when Putin invades Latvia and Estonia.
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