Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks • Hacker News Board

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#91

Post by can16358p » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

sobkas wrote: post #58

can16358p wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I add to your second point from my experience. I live in Turkey and we have a similar state propaganda (though fortunately not war). The government successfully collapsed the economy but they control the mainstream media and their supporters still blame (and truly believe in what they say) the opposition for everything bad that the government does. Controlling people's mindset is apparently easier than it seems…

> I live in Turkey and we have a similar state propaganda (though fortunately not war). So what about Syria? Kurds are another topic you might want to look into (both inside and outside the Turkey). Azerbaijan-Armenia proxy war? It's not as easy as you think.

We don't have war here.

Syria and refugees are part of a bigger plan. It's not like the government suddenly became philantrophic and wanted to help people running from war.

For decades Kurds and Turks lived happily together. Again, government's agenda is to divide and conquer so they made Kurds "enemy" to some (gullible) part of the population.

Surely it's not "easy" though my point stands: when you control mainstream media you can easily manipulate enough people. Current authoratorian government does this in Turkey, and even if there is also many enlightened people, we are just relatively minority.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#92

Post by ineedasername » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sens

In the US as significant part of the population will believe that the political party in power is the source of everything bad, counter to any evidence. Paradoxically, evidence against that point of view is almost taken as proof: "that's what they want you to believe!".

Try talking to an ardent Trump opponent or supporter that he did even the least little thing right or wrong. It's maddening the contortions of reasoning and deflection. He's so very polarizing so the phenomena is more extreme with him but the same goes for any president in my lifetime.

Now imagine there's only one real political party, more controls on information, and a general human desire to not see themselves or their "tribe" as the villains in any situation...

The type of sentiment change you're hoping for can occur, but my own observation is that it only happens very gradually over many years or very suddenly when sparked by something cataclysmic, and that second method has as much chance of hardening the mindset with more rationalizing as it does changing it.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#93

Post by croes » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

Are you sure? Could simply be put as economic war by the west against russian competitors.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#94

Post by emptysongglass » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #80

JanSt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They gonna send nukes because IKEA stopped sending Billy? I'm not sure Billy will come back that way. Let's face it: Russia is illegaly invading a foreign country that is fighting back hard. The only way I see out for Russia to save itself is by sending Putin into exile and blame it all on him. Putin hoped for weakness in the west re sanctions and weapons. They play hardball and now Putin is failing. edit: I also bel…

> The army isn't that strong obviously... I agree with some of your points, but what do you mean by "strong"? Ukraine is not a cake walk, and the most powerful armies in the world could barely contain poor Afghani warlords. This is not easy. Consider that much of the news of Russian failure is an information op. The Ukrainians are putting up a valiant fight, but the Russians will run them over without support, no dou…

No doubt about it? That's just as much an "information op" as the other side you claim. This war is far from decided and making such baseless claims as Russia steamrolling Ukraine because you've heard somewhere of Russia's fearsome military is irresponsible at best.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#95

Post by kredd » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

nafizh wrote: post #85

itsoktocry wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

It's not like this is something new. Majority Chinese people are supportive of CCP no matter what it does. Even if there's opposition among mass people, there's no way to know.

The interesting part is how Chinese government was able to prove itself that it can lift up people from poverty over the years, so confidence and trust of the citizens hasn’t been on a free-fall. I’m not sure of the same would apply to Russian government. There’s a weird combination of trust and fear within Chinese population, but mostly fear within Russians that I have interacted with in the past.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#96

Post by JanSt » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #80

JanSt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They gonna send nukes because IKEA stopped sending Billy? I'm not sure Billy will come back that way. Let's face it: Russia is illegaly invading a foreign country that is fighting back hard. The only way I see out for Russia to save itself is by sending Putin into exile and blame it all on him. Putin hoped for weakness in the west re sanctions and weapons. They play hardball and now Putin is failing. edit: I also bel…

> The army isn't that strong obviously... I agree with some of your points, but what do you mean by "strong"? Ukraine is not a cake walk, and the most powerful armies in the world could barely contain poor Afghani warlords. This is not easy. Consider that much of the news of Russian failure is an information op. The Ukrainians are putting up a valiant fight, but the Russians will run them over without support, no dou…

Russia is supposedly a superpower with modern equipment. But their material leaks oil, tyres are in terrible condition food is missing, their logistics don't work out, they have no air superiority, they don't even have secure communication. At this point I'd be surprised if that huge convoy will reach Kiyv within the next week or at all...

It shows that you cannot support a huge army in such a poor country (GDP/capita). There was a myth to the russian army, but they barely manage to capture cities in which (according to propaganda) most inhabitans support them.

They wanted a Blitzkrieg and it didn't work out at all. Of course they can keep throwing material and bombs at the cities. They have much more material. But how quickly can they do that? Can they cut off supplies from western countries? Can they keep fighting against Javelins and ambushes?

What's the end game at this point? They will be hated by the population they supposedly wanted to free, the cities will be destroyed and they became an international pariah. Their economy will be in shambles.

Russia did think it would be easy ("will be greeted with flowers and bread")!

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#97

Post by madaxe_again » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #76

osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

My wife’s grandmother is an intelligent woman - an engineer, designed industrial machinery in the Soviet Union.

She’s a latvian citizen - but Russian speaking - so she consumes Russian TV and radio.

My wife had a tearful falling out with her a few days ago on the phone, as she’s absolutely drunk the Kool-aid - Ukrainians are all Nazis, we’re rescuing Russian prisoners, Biden is planning a nuclear first strike on St Petersburg, etc. etc.

A large swathe of the population grew up in a world where the state is the world, and everything external to the state is the enemy.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#98

Post by rustybelt » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #84

nkozyra wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're suggesting the poster is part of the meta propaganda I'm unclear on this. These are direct firsthand accounts from friends.

Maybe it's just me, but when I read "I've a friend that..." on the internet, it doesn't much sway my opinion. Besides, there's nothing wrong with questioning the claim, is there? I truly am skeptical that "significant" portions of the Russian population believes the Ukrainians are killing themselves. That doesn't mean it's not true.

The only thing I’m confident about when it comes to this war is that both sides are lying their asses off.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#99

Post by shaky-carrousel » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #76

osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

> Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people.

Neither is the US. But you and me have seen during this pandemic, to people able to reason that pneumonia can kill, and covid can cause pneumonia, but unable to reason that covid can kill. Propaganda is like that.

You only have to take a look at what sects do to people to see the kind of gymnastics people can do in their reasoning because propaganda.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#100

Post by goodcanadian » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

1_player wrote: post #36

DesertBattery wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong. People getting angry at West and talking about war. Including nuclear.

It seems it depends which generation we're talking about. Younger Russians seems to be the ones most connected and thus aware of what's going on abroad, while middle aged Russians are playing the ostrich and burying their head in the sand. I saw an interview yesterday of a journalist wanting to show 50-something Russian people what's going on in Ukraine, and most of them were like "I don't want to see, get that thing…

I, possibly, saw the same thing. I thought it was fascinating. The 50-somethings mostly following the party line. The 20-something was pretty clearly anti-war and anti-Putin. The 30-something said with a wry smile, "I don't want to talk about it because that is dangerous, here, you know." And my favourite, the 70-something saying, "It is awful. We have lost 500 already [the officially admitted death toll], and for what? We don't know!"